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SOULMAPPIN: The 10 Essential Alignments For A Blissful Life With Cary Jack – Real Estate For Women

REW 75 | Blissful Life


What if there was a way for you to quantify how close you are to your vision of a successful life? Today’s guest shares the ten essential alignments that you should measure to see which areas in your lifestyle need some tweaking. Joining host Moneeka Sawyer is Cary Jack, a lifestyle entrepreneur, podcast host, author, and Founder of The Happy Hustle. Cary breaks down the ten alignments that will help you in your path to achieving a blissful life. He has coined these alignments as SOULMAPPIN: selfless service, optimized health, unplug digitally, loving relationships, mindful spirituality, abundance financially, personal development, passionate hobbies, impactful work, and nature connection. Understand each one, be inspired, and start the course on your journey to a successful life by tuning in to this episode!

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SOULMAPPIN: The 10 Essential Alignments For A Blissful Life With Cary Jack – Real Estate For Women

Real Estate Investing For Women

I am so excited to welcome Cary Jack to the show. He is a Lifestyle Entrepreneur, Author, Podcast Host, Professional Actor, Model, Biohacker, Eco Warrior, and Martial Artist. He’s a humanitarian striving to make a positive impact on the planet. After experiencing entrepreneurial burnout, he then founded The Happy Hustle. His mission is to educate, inspire and entertain while reminding you to enjoy the journey, not just the destination, as you happy hustle for a life of passion and purpose.

You guys can see why I have him on the show. For successful entrepreneurs to spiritual masters, he interviews an array of powerful guests, including myself, The Happy Hustle Podcast, to help you transform your dreams into a reality. His book The Happy Hustle is coming out in 2021, and he couldn’t be more excited at the opportunity to share his message of Happy Hustlin’, a way to balance your life and your love. Cary, how are you?

I’m fantastic, Moneeka. It’s always a pleasure to connect with you and I’m honored to be here.

Thank you for coming. Ladies, I had to share Cary with you for a couple of reasons. First of all, I was on his show. He’s an amazing host. Go check that out at Happy Hustle Podcast, and then also he runs a mastermind that I’m a part of. As podcasters, we share a lot of ideas and he always shows up super consistently as the happy hustle guy. One of the things that you know I put a lot of emphasis on in life is about living bliss consistently.

You want to develop those bliss muscles and habits so that no matter where you go emotionally in your life, you’re always able to come back to this baseline of bliss. Consistency is the key. The people that I have on my show talking about bliss, it makes a difference if they themselves are showing up for their lives and for the people around them consistently and Cary is one of those people. I’m excited to share him with you and for this conversation. Cary, thank you again.

It’s very important to disconnect to reconnect. Click To Tweet

Thank you for having me. When I think of bliss, I think of you. I just tried to keep up.

Give us a little bit about your background and start with what brought you to where you are.

It started with growing up half in Sarasota, Florida, and then half in Red Lodge, Montana. I was basically surf and skate half the year, then camping, fishing, hunting and hiking. The other half was playing cowboy, and I reside in Big Sky Country, Montana. I’ve always been an entrepreneur since an early age and just valuing the dollar and having to earn every penny for myself.

My dad and mom are both entrepreneurs and they always instilled in us that you had to basically go out and hunt for it if you want to eat, and so I have that blue-collar work mentality and I think that’s served me. I did experience entrepreneurial burnout along the journey and that’s what led me to Happy Hustlin’.

I was a fancy tech entrepreneur with my big data tech startup in New York City, wearing the fancy suit and tie. My brother and business partner and I were soliciting this seven-figure VC funding deal, and we ink partnerships with Microsoft, IBM and all of the things. We work 100-plus hours a week, and I just burnt out. At that point, I sacrificed everything to get that deal and those partnerships. My faith, family, fitness and fun all went to the gutter.

It wasn’t until I achieved the profit and success that I realized this isn’t worth it. I flew to Bangkok, Thailand, lived there for ten months. I figured out a better way to work and live and that’s where The Happy Hustle was born. Now I’m focused on being a lifestyle entrepreneur, investing my hard-earned fruits of my labor wisely into different assets, businesses and people. What I found is that you can achieve blissful balance if you just measure yourself in each of these ten alignments. I just scratched my own itch first, which was going from burnout to bliss and now I’m helping others do the same.

I love that you are so comfortable using the word bliss. People usually come on this show, and they’re like, “What is that?” I’m delighted that you’re so comfortable with that, and I see you living that lifestyle. Talk to us a little bit about these ten alignments that create that blissful balance for you and for everybody.

S – Selfless Service

This applies to everybody. It’s an acronym. I’ve found that it’s difficult to remember ten alignments in my tribe. I made it an acronym. It’s SOUL MAPPIN. S stands for Selfless Service because, as Tony Robbins says, “The secret to living is giving.” I think it’s very important to focus on giving back to others. Giving your time, money and expertise.

As I go through these, I urge your audience to measure 1 to 5 where you rank at each of these ten alignments. This is a practice that my tribe I do every Sunday. It’s very important that what you measure you can manage. You have to know where you may be out of balance. If you’re feeling stressed, unfulfilled or burnout, in any capacity, you may be lacking in one of these ten alignments and it’s important to recognize it first. Awareness is the first step. As I go through these, feel free to interject anytime as well, but basically, measure five would be an A. You’re crushing it. You’re happy hustling.

REW 75 | Blissful Life

Blissful Life: You have to have love in your life. What’s all the accumulation of wealth for if you don’t have people to share it with?


One is an F. You’re failing. Selfless service, that’s the first step. How often are you volunteering? How often are you giving back? How often are you not just thinking for yourself? If every day, that’s a five. You’re crushing it. If it’s a one and you’re never helping others, you need to prioritize change maybe because that’s a big component to happiness and fulfillment.

O – Optimized Health

The next one is O, Optimize health. Health is wealth. You have to have your health if you’re going to be happy hustling in any capacity, if you’re going to live a blissful life. For me, I think a lot of people complicate it. I used to run a high-end biohacking company. We worked with pro-athletes and Fortune 500 CEOs. I learned a lot from what the top 1% of high performers are doing and I think a lot of people complicate it.

U – Unplug Digitally

For me, it’s moving the body minimum of 25 minutes every single day. Drinking a gallon of water and just eating healthy, all-natural organic foods, no processed crap. Measure right now where you’re at 1 to 5 in each of the ten alignments and specifically for O. U is Unplug digitally. A lot of people are plugged in so much to their devices now, on their smart TVs, smartphones and tablets, and we’re so disconnected from our present moment, mother nature and even the people right beside us.

It’s very important to disconnect to reconnect. I’ll put it in a little sprinkle of tips throughout each of these, but even just 60 minutes of undivided no device time in the mornings when you wake up can go so far. I even doubled down in the evening time 60 minutes before bed, no devices. Those two simple happy hustle hacks can make a big difference and that’s you. Measure where you’re at. If you’re always plugged in and you’re never disconnected, that’s a one. You need to prioritize change.

I do want to highlight this a little bit because this is something that we don’t realize when. When I hold my choose bliss retreat, which is called the Bliss Retreat, this is one of the very first things we talk about. Your mind is most vulnerable and highest capacity just when you wake up and just before going to sleep.

Those are not times you want to be looking at social media, which can be highly negative or overly positive making you feel bad about your life. You don’t want to be looking at the news. You don’t want to be susceptible to the subconscious messages of advertising. You don’t want any of those things and now our phones are not just a phone. They’re all of those things.

It’s important not even to check texts because when you check a text, you’re now plugging into somebody else’s agenda. You want to make sure that you start the day and end the day focused on your own agenda, life, bliss and gratitude. That’s the first thing. I just love this because people don’t talk about this as much. The other thing about that is before you go to sleep, if you have screen time, your eyes have a physical reaction to the screen.

The toxic blue light.

It takes time to decompress from that for your eyes to settle in to be able to go into REM sleep. It’s not just the mental activity of looking at that screen. It’s a physical reaction that our bodies have. In the morning, it’s hugely important to start your day off. Do not start with other people’s agenda, advertising bad news, and at night you don’t want to have all of those things you’re going to dream about at night. You don’t want to be dreaming about other people’s agendas, bad news and advertising. You also want to make sure that your body has the time to decompress and relax so that you sleep blissfully. I love that the hour on either side gives you just the space to prioritize yourself for long enough to set yourself up for bliss.

Money is a tool, and it’s very important. Click To Tweet

I’ll take it a step further. What our devices I meant is a toxic frequency. It’s EMS, electromagnetic frequency. It’s basically radiation. Whether you’re on your Bluetooth headset or you got your smartphone in your pocket zapping you with EMS, these have shown to break down ourselves on a DNA level.

If you’re wondering why your mitochondria are not functioning properly, also known as your energy powerhouse cells, you need to check your screen time. You need to check your device usage. This is a huge factor and a lot of people are missing it, and especially now with the rollout of 5G. I don’t want to go down the woo-woo train here of like, “Tinfoil hat guy.”

It’s a factor. You have to use technology wisely and if you are going to use your devices past dark, put on some blue blockers. Those help your eyes. That affects your retina and your cornea, and it does take time to compensate for that toxic blue light. It’s an important factor both physically, mentally and emotionally. Watching social media and the news, that stuff is oftentimes other people’s agendas and priorities, not yours. Those are important steps there.

L is Love and relationships. This is an essential part and just living the happy hustle, blissful life. You have to have love in your life. What’s it all for? What’s all the investing, money and the accumulation of wealth for if you don’t have people to share it with? I’ve found that a lot of my fellow entrepreneurs sacrifice specifically their loved ones to get to the cliché top of the mountain, and then they look around, “The view’s bad,” and they’re isolated. No one’s there.

The view is gorgeous, but there’s nobody there with them.

Hopefully, the view is gorgeous, but oftentimes I see people don’t even like the view. They’re like, “I should be on that mountain. That mountain looks a lot better.”

It’s cloudy and cold.

That’s the truth. For me, I have a fiancée. We’re getting married soon. We have date night every week. We have a Sunday beer talk. We have a love calendar where we measure where we rank in our relationship. Every single day I ask her. This could be something that you implement with your lover. It’s the simple whiteboard calendar. It sits in our room. I ask her every night, “What’s your love day?” She’s like, “It was an eight.”

We had lots of passion, love and maybe even intercourse. Measures up, and then she asked me, “Mine was a six. This was why.” We average that out a seven. I’ll put it on the calendar for that day. I put a heart around it, and then we move on to the next day. At the end of the month, you can see where you rank because oftentimes, we as humans have this negativity bias and we focus on the negative, that nitpicking and nagging. She didn’t do the dishes or I didn’t do the laundry.

L – Loving Relationships

This is a way to calculate and you want to be 90% love days. Hopefully, that’s the goal of 10%. There are going to be some mess-ups, but if you start dropping down below 80% love days, then you might need to reassess and reevaluate. Is this a healthy relationship for you? That’s just one happy hustle hack for you, but loving relationships both with your family and friends is a really important piece. I would say measure 1 to 5 where you rank, and that’s L. Now we got the Soul part of SOUL MAPPIN.

M – Mindful Spirituality

M is for mindful spirituality. I know you’re big into meditation and breathwork and just being spiritual in whatever capacity. I don’t necessarily care if you believe in one God or another. I just think you have to have faith in a higher power. Get still ten minutes minimum a day, focusing on my breath and gratitude and doing my gratitude practice. I’m doing my I am incantations on my rebounder, just training my subconscious. That is the central part of mindful spirituality.

Meditation oftentimes gets complicated, but all you have to do is focus on your breath in a quiet place. Just enjoy the given moment, feel, use your different senses, but measure where you rank right now, 1 to 5 in each of these ten alignments and, specifically, mindful spirituality. You see the highest performers at every level. From the real estate game to the business game to any high performer in the sports field, they are using mindful spirituality. If you’re not, maybe this is a wake-up call. That’s M.

I ask the three rapid-fire questions at the end for every single guest that’s been on here. We’ve had 250 guests on the show, and I will say the two biggest things that people say are some forms of meditation or exercise. It’s so interesting because you don’t think those aren’t business-related things. I get up and I block time and every week, I do this. It’s none of that. It’s taking care of the human element first of you so that you can then go out there and be your very best self in the world. Meditation is huge and there are a million different kinds of meditation and you can complicate it. You can do what Cary just said, but choose something.

Especially as entrepreneurs, we have a monkey mind. Get settling into that. At least at first, it feels like a challenge. You can push through and just keep doing it until you’ve trained your mind to do it, or you can pick something else that will keep you going until you can get there, for instance, a walking meditation. I do a dancing meditation because I’m a dancer. There are different ways that we can engage in meditation, but find something that helps you to heal and nourish your mind.

It’s a great way to just get out of our heads and into our hearts. We spend a lot of time at the monkey brain, just overthinking and overanalyzing and just that anxiety and stress. It’s a great way to just take a step back, and it’s clinically proven that six deep breaths change your state. Just six deep breaths can do wonders.

In EXTRA, we are going to talk about his box breath. Stay tuned for that because that’s a really good fast technique to get you back into your body creativity, to relax the mind and the body so that you perform better. We are going to cover that in EXTRA. I’m excited.

A – Abundance Financially

We’re moving on to A. A is Abundance financially. If you want to invest in real estate, if you want to invest in yourself and if you want to invest in a business, you have to have money. I look at money as a tool. It’s energy and you essentially need money to use this energy. One thing that was the difference-maker in my financial wellbeing was financial literacy. Knowing how to invest, save and spend wisely.

It wasn’t until I took financial literacy seriously, then everything started to transpire positively for me in terms of money. There are sometimes some negative connotations around money. It’s okay if you want money if you want to be rich and if you want a big life, go for it, but you have to change your money story first and foremost, and you have to educate yourself. In the real estate market, you have to be educated in order to make quality buying and selling decisions.

The same goes with investing in stocks or bonds, with investing in crypto, investing in yourself, and in business and partnerships. It’s very important to have abundance financially so we can live the happy hustle, blissful lifestyle and take care of those who we care about. Let’s face it. We’re all out here working for freedom.

Freedom both financially, creativity and time are three forms of freedom. Money can oftentimes truly help you provide that, but not at the expense of your time. A lot of people trade their time for money. I really very much focus on getting paid for value delivered, not time spent. I think that’s an important correlation or an important distinction to make, but money is a tool and it’s very important. One thing I’ll just say, “Get good at sales.” Sales are the lifeblood of any business. I love selling. It maybe the hunter in me, but sales is just extremely important.

I do the majority of my sales on Zoom, which is hilarious. I learned a lot selling over $1 million, working very little, to be honest with you, over Zoom calls. It’s all emotional intelligence and how to read body language. I don’t say that to brag or anything. I have experience in this niche of selling over digital Zoom calls and very awesome/important techniques to utilize. I think whether you’re selling on the phone or you’re selling one-to-one in person or you’re selling over video calls, you have to learn sales in order to achieve abundance financially. Measure where you’re at right now in terms of abundance financially. Five is you’re crushing it. One is living paycheck to paycheck.

REW 75 | Blissful Life

Blissful Life: The difference-maker in your financial well-being is financial literacy—knowing how to invest, knowing how to have, and knowing how to spend wisely.


You ran a business where you gave it everything. You were doing the 100-hour week, you were doing all of that stuff and now you have a very successful business, much more passive. I want people to think about this. This is a very important point. If you’re trading time for hours, your capacity to earn is very limited to your capacity to work.

If you go on vacation, all the money stops. What you want is passive income, and this is why real estate is so amazing. You want your money out there doing this little thing. You want it doing its hustle and you’re on vacation. Make your money hustle for you. You don’t hustle. That’s the thing and it’s amazing with real estate. You can do it in a lot of different vehicles.

The very rich invest in stock portfolios, real estate and businesses, those are the top three. You’re welcome to do all of those and I do all of those, but for me, it’s a very passive experience. The most time that I spend on my business is in the podcast business or my coaching business, and that restricts me from taking my vacations, but my real estate business does not.

Now I’m trying to move towards making this business a little bit more passive and conducive to my lifestyle. It’s a really important point, ladies, and notice, I mentioned my own transition. We are all at some place in that spectrum of fully passive to trading time for money. Sometimes we have to trade time for money in order to get the money to create the passive income. That’s okay, but have that as your goal because there’s a journey that we go through to get to that place, to where your money is working for you and you’re now off on vacation.

If you’re not growing and evolving, you’re shrinking and dissolving. Click To Tweet

It’s so true. I’m still on my journey. I’m still figuring it out. I know you are as well. There’s a delicate dance between trading your time for money and having passive residual income. One strategy that I’ll just throw out to your audience that I’ve seen effective in my life is affiliate relationships. Affiliate relationships leverage your time most effectively because you can promote a product or service that you believe in, but not have to focus on delivering.

I have some very lucrative affiliate relationships in my business. They pay me nice $5,000, $10,000 every month and it’s beautiful. There are some that require a little more time, maybe a little more content creation, connection and touchpoints, but it’s important to think about how you can leverage your time most effectively, so you can spend it more doing what you love.

P – Personal Development

The first P, that is Personal development. If you’re not growing and evolving, you’re shrinking and dissolving. You have to focus on growing every single day in some way, and we can learn from anyone. We can learn from the garbage man on the street to the high-rise female boss entrepreneur in the office. There’s a lesson in each interaction. What I like to focus on is 90 minutes of personal growth every single day.

I’ll do 30 minutes of reading something inspirational and educational in the morning, 30 minutes of listening to something inspirational and educational in the afternoon and then 30 minutes of watching something inspirational and educational. I find I draw a lot of inspiration from these different forms of content and people learn in different ways. That’s why I recommend three different mediums.

If that sounds a little like a lot to start, start with fifteen minutes in the morning, fifteen in the afternoon and fifteen in the evening, but just start focusing on your personal development and make things relatable to where you’re at right now. In your business, life and investing portfolio, make those things relatable of what you’re learning.

P – Passionate Hobbies

If you’re not doing these things, measure where you rank or where you are. That way, we can course correct. At the end of this interview, you should know where you’re ranking in each of these, and it’s just important to measure. That’s the first P, Personal development. Next P is Passionate hobbies. This is one that I think a lot of people miss big time. They’re working their tail off, they’re grinding and they’re hustling, but they’re not happy hustling.

This is where you fill your cup with passionate hobbies or doing things you love. Fun things regularly that you might even have to pay for. Maybe you’re big into art or dancing. For me, I love fly fishing. I love martial arts. I go camping, hiking and horseback riding. It’s important to fill your cup so you can give from your overflow. Here is one of the biggest pieces of the puzzle. If you want to achieve blissful balance, if you want to create your dream reality, you must prioritize each separate calendar engagement with the same priority.

Your passionate hobbies, like maybe Moneeka loves to go belly dancing, that get the same priorities as this interview with me. It’s the same priority with the date night with her husband, gets the same priority as her workout and that’s how you create the blissful balance in your life, both personally and professionally. If you’re lacking in passionate hobbies, I highly recommend scheduling two fun things right now on your calendar and holding yourself to them as if they are just as important as your meeting with your next potential big partnership or whatnot. That’s the second P.

I want to add something to that. I do all of those things. I have a date night every single week with my husband. That’s one of the big things and that counts as one of the fun things that I love to do. Here’s an interesting thing that I just want to point out that you may not be thinking about as you’re out there building your life. First of all, I don’t know, all work, no play makes Jack a very boring boy. That’s one of those things that people would tell us as younger people, and it’s not emphasized anymore.

Just being single-dimensional, intellectual, workaholic and mom or dad to the kids makes you feel bored in your own heart and makes you boring to others. Being boring to others is its own thing. It’s subjective. What happens is through life, if you have not developed your passions, if you are not paying attention to the things that make you happy, what are you going to do when you have all that money and you retire? You’re probably going to fall into a huge depression. I know so many people fully identify as a software engineer as their job. That’s who they are. I think my husband is one of these people. We’re dealing with this now.

My husband has well-developed hobbies, but they’re not enough of a passion that they would engage him if he had 24 hours to himself, and he was no longer working his 50-hour week. For me, I’m in transition to retirement. What does that mean and who am I going to get to be in that? That person has been developed my whole life.

I’ve been a dancer since I was five. I sing. I like walks. We do fine dining. We love to travel. I read books. There are a lot of things in my life that engage my passion. When I retire, I’m excited because there are about 10,000 things I could do with every single day, but if you only work, you suddenly lose your identity and instead of being full of joy, you’re now really depressed because you don’t know who you are. You don’t know how to fill your time, all of those things.

For some of you, ladies, I know there are like 21-year-olds reading this. They’re like, “What in the world?” Just understand that who you are growing to be is who you are going to amplify and become more as you get older, and that’s what’s going to be amplified when you’re wealthy. Do you want to give back to people? Do you want to be a passionate, joyful person or are you going to be grumpy and a hoarder?

What are you going to do? What’s going to make your life blissful when you’re not so focused on the day-to-day? That helps to raise your bliss factor also. To feel that passion every day in some way or have something really joyful to look forward to every week or every day. We just love this. We are complete people. We’re not just mom, wife and employees. Explore. We are these multidimensional beings and we don’t allow ourselves to focus on all the amazingness inside of us and what we can do with our lives and our time.

I resonate with all of it and I think it’s sustainable, happy hustling. It’s sustainable investing and the accumulation of knowledge, resources and wealth. Sacrifice everything and you get everything that you thought you wanted and you realize that’s not what brings joy and fulfillment. You will become depressed and have to start over and re-find yourself.

I – Impactful Work

You are better off to do it from the beginning a little bit at a time. That’s the second P in SOUL MAPPIN, and now we’re on to I, which is Impactful work. We spend the majority of our lives either working or thinking of work. In The Happy Hustle, we focus on the three pillars. It’s a little cliché, but passion, purpose and positive impact, and passion for me is inward-facing. It’s my calling. It’s what problem I truly feel called to solve.

Then purpose is outward serving. It’s who exactly do I feel called to solve that problem for? It’s very important that it makes a positive impact. Your passion and purpose don’t exploit the earth’s resources negatively or hurts others. It’s very important that it makes a positive impact. I would ask yourself, is your work right now giving you passion, purpose and making a positive impact? If not, it’s time to make a change because life is short. We got to live this to the fullest. I just think there are a lot of people sacrificing out there and I hope that’s not you, but if it is, make a change and infuse that passion, purpose and the positive impact. That’s I.

N – Nature Connection

Nature connection. We’re living like zoo animals. We’re inside our offices getting recycled air, toxic blue light and EMS. We go commute in our cage on wheels with recycled air and manufactured light, and then we go home and then we have the more of the same. I think it’s so important that we get back to being human beings and being outside, connecting with Pachamama, this beautiful planet, and then protecting it in the process.

Climate change is real and I have a company with my brother called Ecopreneur Evolution. That’s fighting the plastic pollution epidemic. That’s creating positive solutions to climate change. We invest in social entrepreneurs essentially in third world developing countries. It’s very important to me to solve this problem, not just for my generation but for future generations or at least be a part of the solution. It’s a big problem to solve. I do believe that just getting outside, walking even just ten minutes a day barefoot in some nice grass or swimming in a natural body of water or just sitting in a park can do wonders for your soul. That is the SOUL MAPPIN framework. Measure 1 to 5.

G is for go. Go happy, hustle your dream reality. I’ll make it easy for everyone. If you just want to measure yourself in each of these ten alignments, I have a simple quiz. It’s completely free. It takes maybe 60 seconds. You just go through CaryJack.com/quiz, and you’ll just measure 1 to 5 in each of these where you need to prioritize change. That’s the ten alignments of being a happy hustler.

It’s important to fill your cup so you can give from your overflow. Click To Tweet

Thank you so much, Cary. It’s so concise and has such good tips. That was amazing.

Thank you for allowing me just to rattle them off.

We are going to have Cary give us some stuff in EXTRA. We’re going to talk in a little bit more detail about some of his happy hustle hustling hacks. We are going to do that. In particular, I wanted him to share the box breathing breath. We’ve heard that in EXTRA ones before, but he’s got a little bit of a different take. This is the thing about breathing. There are so many different ways to do it and some resonate with us and some don’t.

He’s got another technique. We do this at his mastermind every couple of weeks. I’m going to have him share that with you, and then he’s got some other stuff he wanted to share with you too. We are going to be talking about that in EXTRA, so stay tuned for that. Cary, could you tell everybody how they can get in touch with you?

Pretty simple. Just CaryJack.com is the place where everything lives. The Happy Hustle Podcast, if you went on to listen to Moneeka on there. That’s a great episode. She rocked the mic and crushed it. We have something special set up for your audience. I don’t know if you want to talk about that.

Tell us about that right now.

That is The Journey: 10 Days to Become a Happy Hustler. This is probably one of the best digital course products I’ve ever put out in my life. It’s essentially walking you through those ten alignments that we just went through, how to create blissful, balanced and healthy habits in each of those ten alignments. You just go to TheHappyHustle.com and then we have code Bliss set up, where you save 20% off.

Basically, you could just start happy hustling and it’s super simple. If you can allocate an hour a day to just going through the content and implementing, you are going to become a happy hustler. That’s something we got set up specifically for your lovely ladies out there, but specifically your tribe. Click on the Yes, I Want In page and then it’ll take you to the checkout page. You just basically plugin code Bliss and there you go. You get your discount.

REW 75 | Blissful Life

Blissful Life: It’s important to think about how you can leverage your time most effectively so you can spend it more doing what you love.


Cary, are you ready for our three rapid-fire questions?

I am born ready.

Tell us one super tip on getting started investing in real estate?

Financial literacy. Read, first and foremost. I love this book, I Will Teach You to Be Rich by Ramit Sethi. Great read. That book will educate you in so many different ways.

What is one strategy for being successful as a real estate investor?

I would say sales because whether you’re buying, selling or investing, there’s some form of a deal and there’s some form of selling. Either you’re selling yourself as a buyer or you’re selling yourself in your property. Get good at the psychology behind what makes humans buy.

What would you say is one daily practice? I know you’ve got a ton of these, but one daily practice that contributes to your personal success.

Ice baths. I get cold every day.

That sounds horrible.

They are. They’re never fun. I never look forward to it, but ice baths do wonders for the body, getting in a tub of water that’s somewhere between 38 and 52 degrees. It decreases the inflammation in the body, from which a lot of disease stems from. It increases blood flow circulation. It basically is just a supercharger for your immune system, and it builds mental fortitude because doing hard things regularly will build discipline and mental fortitude itself.

Who you are growing to be today is who you are going to amplify and become more and more of as you get older. Click To Tweet

I learned this from a biohacking friend of mine. We’re at the end of a shower. The last 30 seconds, I do cold water. Is that good?

There you go. Yes. You get in cold.

I don’t think I could do the ice bath, but I can do the cold water for 30 seconds. Cary, this has been an amazing first part of our show. Thank you so much for all you’ve offered.

Thank you for having me. This has been my honor.

Ladies, thank you for joining Cary and me for this portion of the show. We’ve got EXTRA coming up for some deep dives, a new breathing technique, some other information on how to live a happy hustle life, so stay tuned for that. If you are not subscribed but would like to be, go to RealEstateInvestingForWomenExtra.com. You get this out for seven days for free. Check it out.

For those of you that are leaving Cary and me, thank you so much for joining us for this portion of the show. I so appreciate you and I look forward to seeing you next time, and until then, remember, goals without action are just dreams. Get out there, take action and create the life your heart deeply desires. Take care. See you soon.


Important Links


About Cary Jack

REW 75 | Blissful LifeI grew up splitting time on the beaches of Sarasota, Florida and in the mountains of Red Lodge, Montana. The son of two entrepreneurial parents, I knew from an early age that I would forge my own path. So I set out to do so, while living a life of passion and purpose. I am so grateful for the adversity for it has made me stronger as it wasn’t always peaches and cream…

Coming from a divorced home, filled with hostility, I fostered problems of my own at an early age. I had an extreme stutter, OCD, and anger problems. I turned to self-abuse and used to bang my head into walls (which probably explains a lot lol). I went to years of counseling and got kicked out of multiple schools. I moved homes 24 times as a kid due to my mother’s sickness and was far from stable.

I got involved in plenty of mischief while growing up, most of which I’ll leave off this site, but I learned many lessons the hard way. I ultimately failed forward and decided to trade my life of hustlin’ for a life of happy hustlin’ where I vowed to use my powers for good.


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On YouTube go to Real Estate Investing for Women

Be The Queen Of Your Own Life With Harriet Morris – Real Estate Women

REW 73 | Be The Queen


Are you a princess or do you want to be the queen? Do you crave outside affirmation, or are you confident in what you are and what you can do? In this episode, Moneeka Sawyer sits down for a talk with eating psychologist and body confidence coach Harriet Morris. Harriet discusses the different archetypes people fill, and zeroes in on two: The princess and the queen. We learn the differences between both and why we need to unleash the queen inside. Tune in and learn more on becoming the queen you were meant to be.

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Be The Queen Of Your Own Life With Harriet Morris – Real Estate Women

Real Estate Investing For Women

I am excited to welcome you to the show, Harriet Morris. She is a coach and host of two podcasts, The Rebel Queen Empath and The Eating Coach. She’s almost a total failure as an employee and a miserable binge eater until the age of 40. It was at this age that she discovered her secret superpower. This is the ability to turn failure and self-sabotage on their heads through curiosity and experimentation. She has used her superpower to reclaim her life from compulsive eating, doubled her income in a year, and get over 200,000 podcast downloads. That’s impressive because if you know anything about podcasting, 20,000 in five years is fairly standard. Two hundred thousand downloads are amazing. She appears on shows like Entrepreneurs on Fire, which I have been on also. Her mission is to help women in midlife step into the role of queen, which means owning their power, dismantling their fear of success, and embracing their own imperfections. Ladies, you can tell why I wanted her on the show. Hello, Harriet. Welcome to the show.

Instead of waiting for life to present an opportunity to you, life's going to say, “Well, no, you've got to do some work first.” Click To Tweet

Moneeka, thank you so much for having me.

Harriet, tell us a little bit about your story. The two-minute high-level version.

In my first career in teaching, I was no good. It was pretty bad. It was an adventure failure. Many people come on podcasts and they go, “I was a corporate bigwig,” and then I changed a bit, “No, I was a complete failure.” I then had kids and decided that I wouldn’t do teaching anymore so I did a variety of online adventures. When I turned 40, everything changed for me. I realized that I wasn’t going to live forever. I wanted to be free of the compulsive eating that I’d have for years and years. I released myself from compulsion by experiments.

There’s this one time I remember, and it was from giving up sugar. I’d given up sugar for about six weeks. I had done it through experimentation when no other gurus could help me. What happened was, I was standing in the supermarket and I was right in front of all the chocolate. I thought, “I’ve had enough of all this that I’ve done.” That food rebel was back and I’m going to have the junk. My hand reached that and said, “Which bar shall I have?” As that happened, the most bizarre thing took place, which was my feet turned to walk in the other direction.

REW 73 | Be The Queen

Be The Queen: The difference between the princess and the queen is that the princess is full of self-doubt, and she wants affirmation from the outside. The queen sits on the throne. She doesn’t need that outside affirmation.


We’re generally attached to our feet. I was like, “What was going on?” What was going on, in a nutshell, was that I had trained my subconscious over six weeks through experimentation to take a different action when I got a craving. It was a distraction action. Even though that day, I said, “I’m not doing any of these distractions,” my subconscious noted that I was stopping and it decided that we were going to walk away anyway.

I was annoyed because I wanted the junk. At the same time, I was like, “Wow.” From then, a couple of years later, I started coaching people with binge eating. It all went from there and I started my podcast. It was all these things that I was scared to do. I had no self-belief when I gave up all the junk. I had no self-belief when I started coaching and podcasting. I did everything as an experiment. That is the message I want to give people. You do not need to have belief in yourself. You just need to be curious.

I love that story about how it’s like a magic wand. Your feet had a life of their own right. Ladies, I know that normally, I don’t have people that talk about eating on the show. Part of what engaged me with Harriet was, first of all, she’s delightful so I wanted to share her with you, ladies. I say this on the show all the time, how we do anything is how we do everything. If we have compulsive behaviors, they are going to show up in different ways. Sometimes it can be a good thing.

My husband is compulsive and how that shows up is he gives me a lot of attention. He’s compulsive about me. There are good things about compulsions but a lot of times it shows up in a bad way. For instance, a compulsion to be lazy, procrastinate and self-sabotage. There are a lot of things that we do compulsively that show up in a bad way. If we have tools to adjust our compulsions, even if we’re talking about an eating disorder, now I can use them in making telephone calls, talking to my clients and tenants. It’s all of these things that we do in our lives. Now we’ve got a tool to adjust all that.

It's good to do affirmations and to work on your beliefs, but it has to happen along with action. Click To Tweet

I also am always on a diet. My metabolism doesn’t cooperate as much as I would like to sometimes. My initial attraction to Harriet was I want to figure out how to have the magic wand to make my feet move the other way. What I realized was through getting to know her more is that this is relevant to real estate too. Ladies, you’re going to get two birds with one stone when we’re talking to Harriet. Thank you so much, Harriet. I’m excited. Let’s start by talking about the queen identity.

This is an interesting thing that’s not talked about very much. When I was doing my eating psychology training, we were told about this and you can imagine that the majority of people doing an Eating Psychology Coaching Certificate are women and a lot of women in their 40s. We all fell off our chairs with, “That’s me.” It’s originated by Carl Jung and he talks about archetypes. Does that mean anything to you?

It does.

If somebody hasn’t heard of it and they’re scratching their heads a bit, this is a big subject. For the purposes of our discussion, you can think of an archetype as a role you play. In any one day, you can play a number of roles slot into those archetypes. You can be the mother, the jester or the trickster. It’s quite interesting, but what Jung said was that there are some archetypes that are age-appropriate. He says that they are different for men and women.

For a woman between the ages of 0 and about 30, she is in the princess archetype. When I’ve said this to clients, some of them say, “I don’t like that word,” because they think it’s Disney. If you don’t like the word princess, you could choose a different word but this is what he used. The princess archetype is something like this, “I am not sure of myself. Do people accept me? I need affirmation from the outside.”

It doesn’t necessarily mean weakness. For example, if you took something like Katniss from The Hunger Games, she’s in that princess age and there are lots of brave things about her. She’s not a shrinking violet but she’s got lots of self-doubts and she doesn’t know if she can trust people. It takes her a while to inhabit this role of the revolutionary leader. You’ve got that from 0 to 30.

What should happen in an ideal world? As we all know, we don’t live in an ideal world. At the age of 30, a woman should start to transition to the queen identity and it’s a long transition. By the time that we’re 50, we should have got that out. By the time a woman is 40, as we told in my training, “Be on the queen program.” The difference between the princess and the queen is the princess is full of stuff that she wants affirmation from the outside.

The queen is sitting on a throne. She doesn’t need that outside affirmation. She’s sitting there and people come to her, and she knows who she is. What’s happened in our culture is that traditionally, women have been told to try and be younger, “Get the anti-aging cream on,” and to try and be like a princess. It’s interesting because a lot of the women have come to me with eating issues. I say to them, “You’re binge eating. It’s a bit like this beautiful alarm call saying, ‘Stop trying to do this,’” because they’re trying to diet to be less. It’s very princess when life actually wants them to sit on their throne and be the queen, and accept themselves more.

If they’ve got weight to lose or get fit, they can do that in an empowered way. Anyway, that’s a side point because I know this is not the point in this interview. Once I saw this, I was like, “I learned this in my early 40s. I can’t wait now I’m on the queen program.” It’s all about reframing things. Let’s say you have a negotiation issue that comes up with rent or something like this, instead of maybe thinking, “I must be collaborative,” because girls are brought up to please people and to be collaborative. I know these are massive generalizations but it’s about saying, “I’m on the queen program. How can I be more regal about it?” Does that make sense?

It does. It’s interesting because the capacity for collaboration is one of the female superpowers that men are not as gifted with. As we take it from the princess area where it’s collaboration for affirmation, we move it to collaboration to create empires. As a queen, now you’re collaborating with other queens and you’re creating empires and big things. You’re not looking for validation. You’re each bringing your own gift to the table like the Round Table of Queens. As all of us bring our superpowers, we now can create something much larger than ourselves. Collaboration still exists but this idea of being on the throne puts us in a different position.

REW 73 | Be The Queen

Be The Queen: There are certain actions you can take that starts to help you see yourself as an investor. It’s the actions we take that then give those beliefs legs.


This conversation is interesting because I have always called myself the princess. I always say, “I’m royalty without responsibility,” which is a goofiness about me. It wasn’t that I didn’t have self-confidence. I went through all of that but that was my thing. I never wanted to be queen, but now I definitely am the queen that sits on my throne. I’m more collaborative. I lift women up more. I have more power and I have a lot more self-respect. I’ve earned my own self-respect. It’s hard because you don’t know what’s happening. In my case, it wasn’t an intentional thing, but it’s been interesting to watch that transition and how the world has changed around me because of the paradigm shift that’s happened inside of my own head.

What does it do to the concept of middle age and getting older? It’s like, “Yes. That’s it.” I remember once when I was in a bar and I went into the bathroom. There was a girl there. She was so drunk and she was crying to her friend. She’s like, “He doesn’t want to see me anymore.” She was texting him. I remember I looked at her and I thought, “I’m so glad I’m not a princess.”

If he doesn’t want to see me anymore, his loss. Whatever.

Where’s the nearest throne?

Let’s talk about how actions change beliefs. I love this topic. I know that as a queen, we step into action before we believe our queen.

That’s exactly it. This is a concept that I created because I was tired. You can google inspirational quotes and you can see all these quotes of people saying, “You have to believe in yourself. Just believe in yourself and everything will follow.” When I was compulsive, all I knew was that I hated my life. I’m thinking of somebody who is starting out with investing and they may have a certain amount of money. You tell me if this happens, but somebody might say, “You need three times the amount to get going. Don’t bother.”

“You need three times the amount. Real estate is risky. You don’t know enough. Nobody else in the family has done real estate. Why do you think this is going to work for you?” There are all sorts of stuff like that.

I’m not recommending going and taking massive risks, but there are certain actions that you can take to start to help you see yourself as an investor. It’s the actions we take that then give those beliefs legs. It’s good to do affirmations and work on your beliefs but it has to happen along with the action. That’s how I’ve managed to do anything that I’ve done and help anybody that I have. It’s by diving in and doing it imperfectly as well.

There is this belief that if we have a particular mindset, things will be attracted to us. I even mentioned the way I changed and now the world is showing up differently. It’s is true but I didn’t just change my mind. I changed the way that I acted, the way that I was showing up, and what I was doing. Most of it was scary. I hope this doesn’t sound like bragging. It’s not that. It’s that I get it. This is hard and hopefully, to model what the possibilities are. You too, Harriet, are modeling what the possibilities are. Even if we have self-doubt, if we take focused action, we have the affirmations to boost up enough to take those actions and to support them. We’ve got our minds working in two ways to move us forward. That’s going to help us. A lot of people think that this whole attraction idea sounds like magic and it’s wonderful, but nothing happens until you take action. Action has to happen.

There’s a great quote from Steve Pavlina. He’s somebody that I follow. He’s a personal development blogger. He says that the best tools of the Law of Attraction are your hands and feet. I would also say your mouth when you’re negotiating, when you want to set something up, or when you want to ask for help. You can sit there and do affirmations until you’re blue in the face, but it’s going out and taking action. I don’t think in terms of the universe. I think in terms of life. I’m doing deals with life. It’s like, “If you want to start off investing, go out and do something,” because you’re saying to life, “I’m having a go.” Instead of waiting for life to present an opportunity to you, life is going to say, “You’ve got to do some work first.” I quite like that idea of making deals with life.

My dad used to always say, “God helps those who help themselves.” As long as I’m out there taking action, God will support me. I’ve always believed that and it is always proven to be true. He’s got to know what I’m doing, what I’m wanting, and what I’m willing to work for. The next topic you talk a lot about is this imperfect visibility. Let’s talk a little bit about that.

I started out with incredible body hatred and I worked on this. In 2019, I created something called the Body Confident Project. It was a project to see if I can help any woman, including myself, because I had my own body image issues and started accepting herself when she looked in the mirror. This is so important for women. It’s not just a beauty thing. It’s about how you’re showing up as the queen. I see so many women and they’re incredible and they’ll say something like, “I need to lose 5 pounds.” The queen shrinks to the princess. This happened and I and the clients I was working with could look in the mirror and go, “I look great.”

The funny thing is that in lockdown, everything changed because I couldn’t go to the gym. I’m thinking about the gym in the right way or in an empowered way as, “I want to be stronger rather than be less.” That was a big part of this imperfect visibility. Lockdown changed everything. I went ten steps back. On my podcast, The Eating Coach Podcast, I recorded an incredibly personal episode and it was like somebody who’s gay coming out. I would say, “I want to tell you that I’ve been compulsive during the lockdown. I’ve put weight on. I’m now dealing with this in my own empowered way without feeling about calories or anything like that.” That was to say that this is me and I’m imperfect. That is so incredibly powerful. It’s also powerful for us as role models.

One thing I hear time and time again is this longing from women in midlife to be better role models for the younger women, but they don’t know how to be. That’s one of my things. I want to help them step into that imperfect visibility so they can say, “No, I don’t eat like a supermodel.” How many people do you know who live in a mansion? Not all of us but nobody gets up and says, “I’m so angry. I don’t live in a mansion,” but they seem to do that with their bodies. That stops people from living their lives. I’ve gone on quite a lot. I get passionate about this topic.

Your discomfort can take you back and then you don't feel very good, or it can take you forward. And that's where your life can change. Click To Tweet

I love your take on the idea of uncomfortability. Can you share with my ladies your take on that?

Uncomfortability is saying, “I am willing to be uncomfortable.” There are two kinds of discomfort and people don’t understand unless they’re already doing it. They go, “I do that,” or they experience it. For example, let’s take the first investment you want to make. You’ve done your due diligence. You’ve got the advice and it’s a risk that you can manage. You’re still, “I don’t know what to do.” You’ve got two choices. The key thing is accepting both of these choices include or will lead to discomfort. Discomfort number one is not doing this and staying where you are. That’s okay. It’s not as bad initially as the other discomfort but you don’t get anywhere. Nothing changes.

The other kind of discomfort is what I call this uncomfortability where I’m going to go in and do it. From that, you’ll learn something. Your knowledge will go further and you will learn to make better decisions. What’s interesting is that you manage your cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is, for example, somebody who smokes. They know that it’s bad for their health but they’re smoking. It’s having two contradictory truths in your head. What’s interesting is that the brain can’t stand it. Hardly anybody smokes anymore. I don’t know anyone who smokes now, but when people say, “I’ll give up next month,” or, “My granddad smokes and drinks whiskey. He lived to be 100.”

People will come up with this nonsense to kill this cognitive dissonance, but there’s something else you can do, which is much more interesting with cognitive dissonance. You can use it to move over to a new identity. With the first investment, for example, it’s like, “I want to be an investor but this is scary. What if it fails?” You’ve got these two truths. What you do then is what you would advise people to do. You would say, “Do the thing which makes you feel uncomfortable and align with the new identity. Accept that that cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable,” but it’s got a shelf life.

That’s the thing. It’s like me in the supermarket with my feet going the other way. I’ve reached this point where the discomfort has changed. That is where the shelf life was. That’s where it started to get much easier because when my feet turned and went the other direction, I thought, “I can do this now. I’m never going back. This is magic.” Your discomfort can take you back and you don’t feel good, or it can take you forward and that’s where your life can change.

I love how you talk about it having a shelf life because you’re only going to feel uncomfortable in that position for a short period of time. Eventually, your alignment will catch up and suddenly, this is the new normal. You see this when people get a brand-new car. You’ve always driven $20,000 cars, and now you got a $50,000 car. You’re like, “This is amazing.” You drive that car for two weeks and suddenly, you deserve a $50,000 car. This is your new normal. You’re not super elated about it because it’s now the new normal. We’ve grown into that new person with that new identity. This can happen in anything and whatever you’re doing in your business. We go into that person that we are being. I love that. I like your term of adversity proofing yourself. Could you expand on that?

It’s tied up with everything I’ve been talking about. It comes down to one question and I want to go back to talking about the queen. It’s not like everything is great. This is Carl Jung. He was quite clever about the human mind. It helps you deal with adversity and it’s the idea of instead of being a victim or, “Why is this happening to me? Why has the deal fallen through? Why has the market changed?” You say, “How am I going to manage this?” The key question which I love and it’s got me through some quite difficult times, is when I hate a situation, I can choose to be a victim but instead, I’m going to ask, “What would the queen do?”

Let me tell you a quick story. When I was learning about the queen, I was also doing a lot of audio relaxation and self-hypnosis. One day, I woke up and this image came to me. This was when I was going through my divorce. I saw myself as a shipwrecked queen and I was on an island. I’d been on a boat and it’s all gone apart. I wear the queenly robe and they were all tattered. I remember thinking, “I’m shipwrecked but I’m still the queen.” Nobody can take that title away from me in this visualization I was doing. If you think about all the resources that we’ve got, we can feel sorry for ourselves but anybody reading, you have an internet connection. You are educated enough to read this blog. You have so many more resources than you might think. That’s your queen power.

“What would the queen do?” I’m going to start asking myself that. That sounds great.

I watched the film Elizabeth. She had some horrible decisions to make but she had to be the queen.

Ladies, in EXTRA, we’re going to be talking about how to negotiate like a queen. I’m excited. Harriet brought it up a little bit during this part of the show. It’s about the way that you set boundaries, the way that you speak and view yourself in any given situation. We’re going to do a little bit of a deep dive on that. I can’t wait to hear a little bit more about the queen power. We’ll be doing that in EXTRA. Before we move into our three rapid-fire questions, could you tell everybody how they can reach you?

Be The Queen: Uncomfortability is saying, “I am willing to be uncomfortable.”


My email address is [email protected]. I’ve got a gift called the Queen Audit. The Queen Audit is seven questions you can ask yourself to help you pivot and move into that queen stage of life and give you clarity on some key things. For example, dismantling imposter syndrome. I would be excited to bring that to you because I don’t see anybody talking about this topic. It’s being transformative for my clients and myself.

Ladies, the URL for that free gift which is the Queen Audit Seven Powerful Questions to Help Any Woman Shift into Queen Identity is at BlissfulInvestor.com/harriet. As you’ve been reading, I know that for the ladies who are reading, the age range is 15 all the way up to 80. We’ve got a huge range, and the queen identity does not belong only to women over 30, 40 or 50. If you can sit on your throne significantly earlier in life, a new way of living happens for you, and then your queen can evolve. Don’t feel that if you’re a younger woman, this isn’t for you. As a matter of fact, I would encourage you to step into that queen as soon as possible because there’s no reason to doubt yourself. You’re this same person so start sooner.

If you think about somebody like Hermione from Harry Potter, she was a princess but she had definite queen elements to her personality, so you’re right.

Harriet, are you ready for three rapid-fire questions?


Give us one super tip on getting started investing in real estate.

Never tolerate the objection “I don’t know.” In this day and age, “I don’t know” won’t cut it. That is victim talk. If more than two people can do what you don’t know how to do, you can find out. This is the internet, so “I don’t know” is not going to cut it.

What was one strategy for being successful in investing in real estate?

I would say belonging. I’ve heard on your show where you talk about the certain clubs that you’re inviting people to. This is a great idea because you’re going to come across problems and maybe people who are trying to step on you in some way. If you’re part of a group, especially a part of the group who knows more than you, then that gives you a core inner strength. It’s something I call cave brain that I talk about an awful lot. The cave brain needs to be part of the group. If you’re beginning, you need to leverage other people’s greater experience.

Even if you’re not beginning, I still do. I’ve been doing this for many years. Having that community is a huge part of my success too and it will always be. This is the way that we work and how we expand. What is one daily practice that you would say contributes to your personal success?

You can choose to be a victim, but instead, you need to ask what would the queen do? Click To Tweet

It’s quite boring. I was going to say meditation or something like that. That is good but it’s doing the most important thing first because you can go, “I want to do this, this and this.” In the morning, our brains are at their best. If you do the most important thing, you have this feeling of satisfaction and everything else falls into place.

This has been amazing. Thank you for all you’ve shared on this portion of this show.

Thank you. It’s been a delight to come on. I’m honored.

Ladies, we’ve got more. We’re going to be talking about negotiating like a queen, which I’m excited about. Stay tuned for EXTRA. If you are not yet subscribed to EXTRA but would like to be, this is going to be a fun episode. You might want to do it now. Go to RealEstateInvestingForWomenExtra.com. You get the first seven days for free so check it out and you can stay if you like. For those of you that are leaving us now, thank you so much for joining Harriet and me in this portion of the show. I appreciate you. I look forward to seeing you next time. Until then, remember, goals without action are just dreams. Get out there, take action and create the life your heart deeply desires. I’ll see you soon. Bye.


Important Links


About Harriet Morris

REW 73 | Be The QueenMy name is Harriet Morris. From the age of 12, when it suddenly hit me like a lightning bolt that I was fat (NB I wasn’t fat – in retrospect I can see I was just reacting badly to the normal changes of adolescence), I was always unhappy with my weight. I followed numerous diets, detoxes, fasting, punishing exercise regimes – you name it, I tried it. Some worked temporarily, but none had any lasting impact – except to embed the idea that I was a fat, willpower-free zone.

I was also a compulsive eater. I used to steal my kids’ Easter eggs and tell myself I was looking after their dental health. Even moderate stress became a regular trigger for trips to the deli (or should I say dealer) to get my fix of fat and sugar. I used to regularly wolf down half my daily calorie needs in less than a minute- all in shameful secret, of course. I was never able to fully concentrate on conversations at parties, or shows at the theatre – all because at the back of my mind and an insistent voice kept whispering “FOOD”. I thought about it constantly, except when I was eating…or should I say inhaling.

My curiosity and creativity have allowed me to come up with some powerful practical strategies to change my eating and exercise habits in ways that empower me, instead of making me want to rebel. In essence, I sat down and had peace talks with my food addiction – while tying its shoelaces together under the table! This has not always been easy – what big life change ever is? – but it has been easier and often far more enjoyable than the endless yo-yo dieting and weight loss/weight gain vicious circle I used to endure.

I am a fully qualified eating psychology coach. I trained with the Institute for The Psychology of Eating.


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Join the Real Estate Investing for Women Community today:

______________________________________To listen to the EXTRA portion of this show go to RealEstateInvestingForWomenExtra.com


To see this program in video:

Search on Roku for Real Estate Investing 4 Women or go to this link: https://blissfulinvestor.com/biroku

On YouTube go to Real Estate Investing for Women

Freeing Yourself From Crazy-Making Relationships with Dr. Rhoberta Shaler

REW 9 | Freeing Yourself From Relationships


The lockdown and quarantine during this pandemic is sure to make a lot of changes in how people live and interact. There are may even be times that you start to think it may be better to start freeing yourself from toxic relationships. Joining Moneeka Sawyer this episode is The Relationship Help Doctor, Dr. Rhoberta Shaler. She talks about the signs to watch out for in determining if your partner is a hijackal and shares her knowledge on what you can do to improve your relationship. She dives into why it’s important not to run away and instead empower yourself and learn how you can divert potentially intense conversations into the neutral zone and create a safe space for you and your children.

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Freeing Yourself From Crazy-Making Relationships with Dr. Rhoberta Shaler

I am excited to welcome to the show, Dr. Rhoberta Shaler, PhD. The Relationship Help Doctor. She provides urgent and ongoing care for relationships in crisis. Her mission is to provide insights, information, and inspiration for clients and audiences to transform relationships with themselves and other humans to be honest, respectful, and safe, and always. Even the United States Marines had sought her help. Dr. Shaler focuses on helping the partners, exes, and adult children of the relentlessly difficult toxic people she calls hijackals. She stopped the crazy-making and saved their sanity. She is the author of sixteen books including Escaping The Hijackal Trap and Stop! That’s Crazy Making. She hosts the popular podcast, Save Your Sanity: Help for Toxic Relationships. Her YouTube channel, For Relationship Help has reached over 350,000 views. Dr. Rhoberta, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Moneeka. It’s great to be here.

It’s nice to see you again. Dr. Rhoberta and I were both Icons of Influence at the New Media Summit. We got to hang out for a few days down in San Diego. It was nice to reconnect. Rhoberta, could you tell us a little bit about your backstory? How did you get into this work?

I started out wanting to be a medical doctor from the time I was five. I was born into a family where I had two hijackal parents and I’m an only child. I had the great joy of having both of them focus on me. They didn’t like each other. It was a very interesting childhood. I learned a great deal. I was very much under the spell of all that had happened to me when I was young as every one of us. I had to do a lot of undoing and a lot of figuring out and there wasn’t a lot of help. Once I got my Doctorate in Psychology, I shifted to this specialty because few people understand what’s going on.

Many times when you go for help with your marriage or your relationship, therapists are not familiar with this. They don’t see it quickly. They do the thing that most therapists would do. They would say, “If you only did more.” In actual fact, that is inappropriate when one of the partners is a hijackal because the other doesn’t need to do more. I am slowly learning all of that. There is a lot of unpacking and a lot of taking the tentacles of my soul, and then learning how to help other people do that. That’s the path that brought me to this particular specialty.

It’s appropriate these days because what’s happening is we’re all stuck together in our houses. Even if they’re crazy about each other and love each other, families are driving each other nuts. It is because we’re not used to be in a close-quarters so much for so long. We’ve got families that even they love each other, they are having trouble. They’re not in toxic relationships but they’re turning into difficult relationships. There are parents that are home with their teenage children or their young children that may not be used to hanging out with them that much. It’s on the same side for the children.  

You don't have power over others, but you have power over your own processing. Click To Tweet

The statistic that breaks my heart the most is that domestic abuse has gone up by double digits in the United States. I have 100,000 followers to this show and I hope and pray that none of my ladies or their children are going through those issues. Statistically, I know someone’s going to hear this and be like, “That’s me.” The other piece is there are also toxic relationships and those people are now all stuck together. All of that stuff is what I want to talk about and how to deal with that because it’s such a big deal.

Let me add something to what you said, Moneeka. It could be men who are having hijackal partners too. It’s not just the women. There’s an equal number of male and female hijackals. They present a little differently, but there are equal numbers and they’re equally as disturbing and difficult. It’s important to know, but I’ve done three episodes of my Save Your Sanity Podcast on the topic of housebound with a hijackal because people need strong strategies to recognize what’s going on. You get a little relief when people go off to work, or kids go off, or your mother isn’t calling you all the time and she may be the hijackal or your father isn’t being demanding. The whole idea is that you are in your house and if the hijackal is in your house too, you’re going to have trouble with it. Here’s one big reason why. It’s because hijackals have to be in charge. Imagine how crazy they are without being the one who’s calling the shots.

They don’t get to say if they go to work or not. They don’t get to say if their industry is open. They don’t get to say if they can stay home or not. They’ve been told and they don’t like it. There is a whole bunch of underlying tension and resentment just in the fact that they are not in charge. What that does is it increases their charge and you become more of the target. You are the lightning rod for all of their resentment and the children may get that too. That is going to be very unhappy making and very much less than blissful.

Let’s move with that. Tell us what we can do about it. Give us some strategies to help my ladies if they’re in that situation. The reason I keep saying “my ladies” is because this is a women’s show. I am fully aware that sometimes the ladies are the hijackal. I’m not taking sides. A lot of us ladies know we’re toxic. Sometimes we’re so stuck there and we don’t know how to pull out of it. We feel badly sometimes. Some hijackals don’t see it. That’s true for men and women. Some of us though feel it. We’re seeing it more in the way that we relate to our families now. For those of you, ladies, this conversation is interesting because you get to know what the other side of that is like. Hopefully, you can take some strategies away for yourself on how to be less of that person or get the help that you need.  

I understood that but I just wanted everybody to know that if you are a lady and you’re reading this, you could be the hijackal treating your man that way. If you understand that you are treating someone that way and you won’t feel bad about it, it’s highly unlikely that you’re a hijackal. It means that you have learned some coping mechanisms from having been raised with one or previously lived with one. We call it having hijackal fleas. You’ve got some fleas leftover in your behaviors. The fact is that if you are cognizant of what you are doing and feel badly about it and want to change it, you do not have typical hijackal traits. Hijackals are not interested in you. They’re only interested in them and what they can get and how they can have power.

If you are in any way aware and conscious that, “I don’t like myself when I do that. It makes other people hurt or feel badly and I don’t like that.” That means that your empathetic mechanism is working and you want to do better, and that’s great. There are a bunch of people in the world who don’t want to do better because the hijackals will tell you outright, “There is nothing wrong with me. I am perfect. If only you were different, we wouldn’t be having this problem.” It’s important to see that distinction. If a person says, “I had a bad day. I behaved badly,” or “I slipped into a way that’s less than loving here. I recognize it and I want to change it,” that means you have empathy. You recognize and you care that somebody else is hurting. You care that maybe you are not presenting a loving face. A hijackal doesn’t care.

REW 9 | Freeing Yourself From Relationships

Freeing Yourself From Relationships: There’s an equal number of male and female hijackals. They present a little differently, but there are equal numbers and they’re equally as disturbing and difficult.


Thank you so much for that distinction because I know that in conversations I’ve had with you before, it occurred to me that everyone will act like that person. We’ve all had bad days. We all have a piece of us that we don’t love that lashes out and deals with frustration in bad ways. In our last conversation, I remember that and I thought, “Am I a part of that? Is it a real relief that I’m not part of that problem?” I’m sure there are some ladies who might hear this conversation and have the same path. Let’s talk about how to deal with these toxic people if we’re stuck with them.

First of all, you have to recognize what’s something that you can do something about and what you can’t do anything about. What’s in your power and what isn’t? Changing a hijackal is not in your power. They don’t want to change. They see no reason to change. Every time you bring up change, they see it as criticism and they’re not interested. What can you do? You look at your own behaviors and say, “How am I responding to this? Am I responding in a way that is in alignment with who I want to be? They may be bringing out the worst in me or having the most awful thoughts, but who am I being? That’s a big thing.

I have clients all over the world and I always tell them, “The beginning stages are to prepare and practice. You have to see things differently. You have to practice new skills and you’re preparing yourself for making better decisions.” I don’t know if you’re going to stay with the hijackal. Maybe we can do several things that the hijackal will respond to and everything will be better, if not it’s never fine. You also have to change you. Here’s why I say that, Moneeka, and because many of your audience are women. About 70% of my practice is women. They’ll say, “I don’t care if I get anything. I just want to be out of here. I would rather be out of here and not bother with anything.”

I’m going, “Do not do that. That’s exactly what they want you to do.” You need to empower yourself before you leave unless there’s sexual or physical abuse. You need to be that empowered woman. That woman who knows her values, vision for her life, and her belief. She has good communication and conflict management skills. She knows how to set good boundaries and hold them. Have the consequences of them felt before you leave because you want to take that empowered women into your new life. You don’t want to take the one that is broken down, tired, fed up, scared, beam me up, get me out of here. If I have to be in absolute poverty and have to live in some tiny little place with my children, so be it. Sometimes that has to happen because there’s physical and sexual abuse.

If there isn’t, you want to prepare and practice. The things that you see that you have to accept are the first thing. They are not going to change. They’re not interested in change so don’t keep having that conversation. Don’t poke hijackals. It never ends well. Don’t make them angry. Don’t criticize them. Don’t demand or threaten. Don’t do those things. I know you want to because you are frustrated, but don’t do it. You know what you get back, the rage and/or the silent treatment, and the withholding affection, money or anything like that. Accept the fact that you don’t poke a hijackal and then know that you do have some power in your own processing. You don’t have power over them, but you have power in your own processing. Learn to do deep yoga breathing, preferably 4-7-8 breathing purposefully so that you keep yourself in the best state possible, you are as relaxed as possible. You can’t solve a problem when you’re in high tension very well because your body goes into fight or flight.

You’re in a hormone wash that makes things a bit foggy. You want to be as relaxed as you can be in a very tense situation. You want to be able to stay present. You don’t want to go into the, “It’s always like this,” or “It’s never like this.” You don’t want to go into the future, “It’s going to be terrible. It’s always going to be like this.” You need to stay present. “At this moment, I was bound with a hijackal. Let me stay within the parameters of what I can deal with. There’s no point in picking fights. There’s no point in making threats. There’s no point in trying to make big changes now.” What you want is the dullest roar you can possibly have in your home, as quiet as you can make it. Neutralize things. If a hijackal makes a statement that is inflammatory, neutralize it in your head. “That’s what they’re talking about. That doesn’t have to affect me. I don’t have to respond to it. I don’t have to have a comeback.”

Check in with yourself. That you are being how you most want to be. Click To Tweet

Many of us women are like, “I’m always the one that has to change. I’m always the one that has to take responsibility.” It can be frustrating. What I would want to say here is you’re changing and taking responsibility for you. You’re not doing it for the benefit of this abusive person. You’re doing it for the benefit of you and your children. Sometimes it’s frustrating that you’re in a relationship where you’re responsible for everything. Remember that this is about empowering you. This isn’t about making someone else right. It’s not about condoning anybody else. It’s not about saying, “I am throwing your arms up in there and saying, ‘Fine, I give up.’” It’s none of that stuff. This is about empowering yourself so that you can keep yourself and your children safe. That’s what this is about.

As I was hearing this and hearing, “You need to change,” it is true and Rhoberta says it very kindly, but I know that some of us through our filters are like, “Really, again? It’s all about me having to change?” We have these feelings. This is about empowering yourself because unless you do it, you’re going to get more abuse. Your children are going to suffer. The dog may suffer. Suffering happens more unless you’re willing to take responsibility to empower yourself to deal with things. Wouldn’t you agree?  

I do and it’s a good point. I would like to emphasize it by saying, “Yes, I understand. It’s not fair. You always have to take the high road. You always have to be the one who understands. You always have to be the one who accommodates.” However, what we’re talking about here when I’m talking about what Moneeka highlighted. This is you growing into the strong, powerful and empowered woman that you would like to feel like. It’s a personal growth pattern. It is not saying, “I have to change because of the hijackal.” It’s saying, “I’ve got this in front of me. I don’t like it. How can I do my bit and come into a wonderful space where I know I’ve got my stuff together? I am being who I want to be. I have good skills. I can quietly say what’s so for me.”

We were talking about my books. In the Kaizen for Couples books that I wrote, I put in there a technique that I created many years ago called the Personal Weather Report. That’s got to be one of the most powerful things I can ever teach anyone. It’s how to speak in a way that is assertive and feel good about it. I’ll give you my definition of assertiveness. It means that you come to a place where you honestly believe that you deserve to take up space and draw breath on this earth. From that place, you learn to say, “I have the right then to say what I think, feel, need and want as long as I do not mention another human by name or pronoun.” If I get in the habit of doing a Personal Weather Report where I speak about what’s so for me, not mentioning another human by name or pronoun, I can be assertive because I know what I think, feel, need, want and remember. As long as I am not talking about anybody else, I have the absolute right to do that. That’s the first way to prepare. It’s to change your communication.

Can you give us an example of that?

You might want to say, “Nobody respects me around here. When you do that, it simply drives me crazy. You’re doing it on purpose and I hate it so change.” That’s not going to help.

REW 9 | Freeing Yourself From Relationships

Freeing Yourself From Relationships: If you understand that you are treating someone wrong and you feel badly about it, it’s highly unlikely you’re a hijackal.


That’s our normal response.  

If I sent her myself and I say, “I find that I do better in a place where I feel there’s respect. At the moment it doesn’t feel like that to me, what would help me is this.” I clearly take responsibility for the fact that I’m not feeling it. I am communicating what would help me feel better and then say, “Would that be possible?” You then can get agreement or no agreement or the silent treatment, but you are beginning to say, “I can only deal with my inner self. I can say what’s so for me. I could put it out there.” I can then ask if I can have that agreement to operate between us in that way. I can then learn something about the other person. If I train myself to use the Personal Weather Report, it sounds simple but it’s not easy.

It is not what we’ve been raised to do and this is basic to take back your sense of being an empowered woman. I know I can count on myself to say something I won’t regret. I can say something that’s true for me. I can say something that if someone doesn’t believe it, that will give me information about them. They don’t want me to be like that. They want me to change. They want me to be different. They want to judge how I am. I’ve already checked in with myself that I am being how I most want to be. I’m living from my values, my vision from my life, my beliefs, and my next best steps.

Thank you, Rhoberta. That was amazing.

Back in the day, I was training teachers. I was going all over the province of British Columbia training teachers. That was back in the day when people thought that “I message” was a stellar way to solve problems and it caused my gut to go, “I don’t like that.” For people reading, an “I message” was, “I feel this way when you do that.” That’s just bail blame. Maybe it was an upgrade from screaming and yelling at what an idiot you are. Maybe there was a middle ground there, but it caused me to develop the Personal Weather Report as a respectful thing. We are the experts on what’s going on here. The other person is not the expert on what’s going on in here. If I simply say, “I care enough to tell you what’s going on in here and I lay it out and then I watched. Do you pick it up or are you curious about it? What do you do with it? Do you get angry about it? Do you refute it?” That will give me information about the other person.

If I’m in a fog, which hijackal wants to keep you in the fog. Susan Forward wrote a book a long time ago called Emotional Blackmail. In there, she talked about FOG as an acronym for Fear, Obligation, and Guilt. That’s where they want to keep you. If you have heightened anxiety, which certainly happens when you’re housebound with a hijackal especially if you have a few kids thrown into the mix, you already are washing chemicals. You then have somebody who wants fear, obligation, and guilt to pile on that and they can’t be wrong so that you must be, what a horrible soup you’re living in. For you to be able to step back and say, “Who do I want to be right now?”

Don't be marginalized, isolated, excluded, demeaned. Stand up, not in a confrontive way, but in a positive, affirmative way. Click To Tweet

All I can do is say who I am, what’s going on within me, give a Personal Weather Report, and watch what they would do with it. A hijackal will have very little interest, but here’s where it provides some effectiveness. It’s when a hijackal gaslights you. That means that the hijackal tries to tell you what you think, feel, need, want, remember, all of that. They want to define your reality for you. They’ll say something like, “I know you better than you know yourself and this is what it is.” When you’re practiced in the Personal Weather Report in that instance, you can come back and you can say, “That’s not how I feel. I’m happy to tell you how I feel if you’re interested in inquiring.” That brings everything into this neutral ground. The hijackal doesn’t like it but they’re not going to go ballistic.

You just say, “I’m happy to tell you, but that isn’t how I feel.” When you start to do that, you start doing it internally. You start practicing it internally. You then start saying it quietly, genuinely and neutrally. You start to get a little bigger in the situation. You start to open up a little stronger and you grow into more sense of, “I have the right to exist. I have the right to take up space. Therefore, I have the right to be assertive.

This whole thing about us taking space. One of the bliss practices is owning your footprint to knowing that you have the right to that footprint. God put you here to take that footprint. It is interesting that you talk about even having a right to breathing air. There are people out there that have that feeling. Thank you so much for that.

Let me give you a little visual. This is a poorly, quickly drawn one but I’ll give it to you anyway. This is a healthy relationship.

It’s a yin and yang.

It is a beautiful balanced yin and yang sign. However, in a hijackal relationship, it looks like that, which is a huge one side and a tiny marginalized, isolated pushed to the edge of the other’s side. That will continue. What I’m inviting you to do in this empowerment is to come back and fill your half of the space. Don’t be marginalized, isolated, excluded, demeaned, discarded, devalued, and let that continue. Stand up not in a confrontative way, but in a positive and affirmative way.

REW 9 | Freeing Yourself From Relationships

Freeing Yourself From Relationships: Escaping the Hijackal Trap: Volume 1 – The Truth About Hijackals and Why They Are Crazy-making

Do you have any other advice for maybe how to protect your children or how to create a safe space within your home with everything that’s going on?  

It’s difficult if you have a hijackal because when they’re agitated, they do what I call Personal Surveillance. They go to the rooms you’re in. They blow up your phone. They want to know where you are. They want to know what you’re doing. They want to know why you’re doing it. They want to tell you shouldn’t be doing it. You may have to carve out internal space because you can’t find it in physical space. Preferably, find some physical space. Go outside in the yard, do something, and have some time to breathe. I mentioned the 4-7-8 breathing. That breathing through your nose as fully as you can for a count of 4, hold your breath for a count of 7, exhale through your mouth as completely as you can for a count of 8 and repeat. What this does is it re-oxygenates your system. It helps you get rid of carbon dioxide.

That will allow you to relax. It will allow your muscles to relax. It will allow you then to be able to think more clearly. You can practice that even while you’re in the middle of a conversation or you’re simply smiling. You can exhale while you’re talking or smiling. If somebody is agitated in front of you, you can practice that purposeful breathing. Also, if you have children, everybody’s a little agitated. Have a designated space in your home for everybody if you possibly can. If they don’t have their own bedrooms, let them have their own sacred corners where when they’re in that, nobody can come in. Therefore, you will be accorded that rate too. The hijackal is constantly going to trespass, but you keep saying, “No, this is my space. Please step out.”

You begin to have some physical boundaries. They may not be walls but they are, “This is my corner. I’m having a quiet time now.” Those are important practices. Children have both your DNA and I want to address the children. Children’s brains grow until they’re 30 years old. The strongest and largest growth capacity is before the age of 5 or 6. Up until that time, children are taking everything in emotionally. They’re figuring out how to get their needs met. They learn whether you come when they cry. They learn when you smile at them. They learn when they smile at you, do you smile back? How do they get your attention? What do they have to do? They’re learning all kinds of things that are survival because as humans, we are not like cows or horses. We don’t get spit out of our mothers and licked off, and then we leap up and run around the meadow.

We know that we’re loved. Intrinsically, we know that we need those giants in order to be transported, to be fed, and to be taken care of. We’re coming from that premise. How do I get them to take care of me? Because we’re emotional beings at that time, primarily we are learning who we are by whether or not they take care of us or how interested they are in us. That is locked in there. When you’re dealing with your children, they have one side coming from the hijackal, which is telling them that their only value is when they make the hijackal happy or look good. I know you don’t want the extra work, but you’re with the hijackal so it comes with the territory. You have to balance it out by being very interested, validating, and present with the children.

When they complain about daddy, you say, “I know you’re feeling such and such. You’re feeling this way.” You legitimize and validate their feelings without making daddy wrong because that’s not going to work. That’s going to come back to hunt. I was working with a client whose children are 8 and 5. The eight-year-old has already been taught by the father to spy on the mother. She has been told repeatedly that she needs to repeat every conversation that she hears the mother is having to him when he gets home. I had a situation in my office and a woman’s babysitter bailed. She came in for a session. She had to bring her 1-year-old and her 5-year-old. Her five-year-old was sitting outside the door with the door cracked and he had an iPad. The little one was with me.

Recognize what's something you can do something about, and what you can't do anything about. What's within your power, and what isn't. Click To Tweet

I watched the five-year-old insert himself around the door. A couple of times, we told him to go back out. The third time, he came in and kept edging towards mom. He then had what I call the hijackal smirk on his face. It’s that clear, superior, “I got you” look. He looked at me and he said, “I’ve recorded everything you said.” I said, “Come and show me your iPad.” He showed it to me and I said, “Where did you record it?” He showed it to me. “How did you learn to do that?” “My daddy gave me this and he told me to record everything and send it to him.” I said, “That’s interesting,” and I erased what he had recorded.

I was hoping you would push delete.  

I said, “I’m sorry, but you can’t do that here.” This is the way they operate. If you’re with a hijackal, you have to do some double duty. That’s just the way it is until you practice and prepare to decide if you’re going to stay with that hijackal. Now, you’re not going anywhere because the courts are backed up and they’re working virtually. Some of them are closed and nothing’s going to happen. It is very important for you to understand what it is you’re telling those children and you are responsible for that balancing act. You don’t make the partner wrong. You validate the children’s feelings and you ask them, what would work better for you? What do you think you could say when that happens? You do some practicing with them. If you happen to have a resentful teenager, I did a Facebook Live not long ago with Aaron Huey from Fire Mountain Programs for teenagers who were troubled. We did a great thing about how to manage teenagers. I highly invite everybody to listen to that. It’s on my YouTube channel. My YouTube channel is For Relationship Help. There’s a whole Facebook Live stream there with Aaron Huey on Cooped Up With Unhappy Teenagers.

Rhoberta, normally I would say, “Let’s go into an EXTRA,” but you have already given some deep, impactful stuff. I don’t feel like we need to move into that other section, but I’m in complete awe. Thank you so much for all you’ve offered.

You’re welcome. Thanks for the great questions. I know how difficult it is if you are housebound with a hijackal. If you’re not housebound with a hijackal because even though they’re not there, they want you to be housebound or at least attached to them by the hip. They want to know where you are, what you’re doing and then they make up a whole lot of bad things that you didn’t do or think, and then they blame you for that. Do get the help that you need if any of this is making sense and what’s happening at your house.

How can people get in touch with you?

Stop, That’s Crazy-Making!: How to quit the Passive-Aggressive game

Go to TransformingRelationship.com. That’s the easiest thing to do. Also, you can arrive there by going to ForRelationshipHelp.com. You can see all this there for you. I have a membership program. You can have a one-hour full session as a new client for only $97. It’s all there for you. It will also lead you to the podcast and the YouTube channel.

You also have books. Those are also available on Amazon.  

They’re both in print form and in eBook form. On my website, there are courses and webinars and all kinds of things to help you on your journey.

Ladies, this can be difficult, so now you’ve got a resource. If you’re needing some help, even if you don’t have the privacy to make a phone call, you can still read books. You can still take coursework. You can do some things for yourself. Make sure you reach out to Rhoberta and get some of that information.

If you’re stuck, I also have a Facebook group and you can find it. It’s called Optimize Life After Emotional Abuse.

Rhoberta, that was truly an amazing episode. Thank you so much for all you offered my ladies.

You’re welcome. Thanks for having me.

Ladies, thank you so much for joining Rhoberta and me for this show. Always remember, bliss is your birthright. Choose to live your bliss every single day. I’ll see you soon.


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About Rhoberta Shaler, PhD

Rhoberta Shaler, PhD, The Relationship Help Doctor, provides urgent and ongoing care for relationships in crisis.  Her mission is to provide the insights, information, and inspiration for clients and audiences to transform relationship with themselves and other humans to be honest, respectful, and safe in all ways.  Even the United States Marines have sought her help!

Dr. Shaler focuses on helping the partners, exes, and adult children of the relentlessly difficult, toxic people she calls Hijackals® to stop the crazy-making and save their sanity.

Author of sixteen books including Escaping the Hijackal Trap and Stop! That’s Crazy-Making, she hosts the internationally popular podcast, Save Your Sanity: Help for Toxic Relationships. Her YouTube channel, ForRelationshipHelp, has reached over 350,000 views.


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