A Perspective On Interest Rates: Stop Renting And Start Buying With Jen Du Plessis – Real Estate Women

What is the latest on interest rates today? In this episode, Jen Du Plessis, the leading expert in creating world-class teams, shares her perspective on this topic. She shares an investment strategy for investors that draws a line between what you will and will not do. You should know your home avatar and shouldn’t time the market. Jen also mentions that you should date the rate, divorce the rent, and marry the house. Tune in to this episode to know why Jen Du Plessis urges renters to stop renting and start buying regardless of the rates.

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A Perspective On Interest Rates: Stop Renting And Start Buying With Jen Du Plessis – Real Estate Women

Real Estate Investing For Women

I am so excited to welcome back to our show, my friend Jen Du Plessis. For those of you who don’t remember Jen, let me remind you a little bit about her bio. Jen is referred to as the leading expert in creating world-class teams. She works with high-achieving leaders and entrepreneurs who are stuck at 6 figures and want to reach 7 figures per year. Through her masterminds and private mentorship, she dramatically improves leadership skills to build powerful teams and enable multiplied results in record time while designing a balanced and exciting personal life.

One of the things that I love is her focus on this balanced and exciting personal life. She has been in the financial services industry for four decades, and during her 35-year career, she was listed in the Top 200 Mortgage Originators Nationally and has funded over $1 billion in mortgage loans. Jen is the author of numerous Amazon number-one bestselling books, the host of two top-rated podcasts, and the producer and host of her own TV show, Tell Me I Can’t, which reaches over 350 million homes monthly. She is a charismatic speaker, having shared stages with such icons as Tony Robbins, Les Brown, Darren Hardy, Jeff Hoffman, Sharon Lechter, and many more.

Also, been featured in numerous articles and covers of nationally recognized magazines, including LA Weekly and Success Profiles Magazine. Jen believes that entrepreneurs can live their legacy while building it, and it’s time to break free from the daily grind with strong leadership skills and powerful teams. Jen believes it’s time to move from working in and on your business to working above and beyond your business.

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Jen, welcome back to the show. It’s so nice to see you. How are you?

Thank you so much. I’m great. I’m always excited to talk to you, Moneeka. I don’t even remember how we met, but we’ve always had such great respect for one another. I love watching what you’re doing from afar because we don’t get the chance to talk all the time.

I love our relationship because I feel like we exemplify the power-woman relationship or when we’re together, we’re best friends. It’s like we didn’t see each other. We just don’t get enough time together. I’m with you on that and I so appreciate our friendship. Thank you so much. Jen, I want to talk about a topic that I know my ladies have been thinking about a lot because I get a lot of emails about this. What is going on with interest rates and is this a good time to buy? It’s all of those questions around interest rates.

I want to start by interjecting that when I started my own investing business years ago, my rate on my primary residence was almost 8%. It was 7.875% or something like that and this is not a non-owner occupied. We were ecstatic. We were like, “The rate is amazing,” and then the rates drop and we had these amazing rates, which is fantastic, but it’s also not sustainable.

When we look at the markets now, I feel like we’ve gone back to normal. Even though that 8% rate was amazing in those days, we balanced it out a little bit. What I’m trying to say is that when we were low, there was always this anxiety inside of me that, “It’s not going to stay this way.” We’re stabilizing and we can count on the markets in the place that we’re at right now. Does that make sense to you? Do you agree or disagree with me? I’m here to learn your perspective.

I totally agree with you. For years and years after the Great Recession, when rates plummeted and everybody was all excited and buying, we kept saying this is not a normal rate environment. We had the Chairman of the Feds and they were doing quantitative easing. The reason they were doing that is that we had supply and demand issues. When you think about supply and demand, it’s a yin and yang. It’s a teeter-totter effect.

They put a cushion of buffer in between so that it wouldn’t adjust. Slowly as they sold those off on their balance sheet, now what became was the real raw piece of this. We knew that this was coming. We’ve been talking about it for years. Many people have been talking about it for years and years. We also know that traditionally rates and markets are cyclical for anywhere from a 24 to 26-month period. We’re in a cyclical piece that came at a time when quantitative easing was being let go. We get a double whammy on it.

Supply and demand can never be equal. It’s always being adjusted. It’s a living, breathing thing. It’s never 50-50 and stays there. That was happening during that time. We had this safety net that the government and the Federal Reserve are putting around us to give us a false sense of security. Buying real estate from 2012 to 2018 was killer. That’s the best time. That doesn’t mean it’s not a good time. There are a lot of reasons why we’re positioning ourselves in our portfolio. I speak at a lot of investor conferences.

I’m that bridge between financing and real estate because I do both. This is a perfect time to be looking at financing or investing in all kinds of things. There are lots of opportunities out there. There are some new types of financing that are out there. Some build to rent because there’s not enough inventory. We see a lot of investors are now buying land, parceling it off, having the houses built, and creating their own little neighborhood of rentals.

Some are doing buy and holds. Some are doing land contracts and things, but we’re seeing all kinds of financing and ways to invest. To our benefit, when interest rates went up, all of the owner-occupied went away. Now there were more opportunities, but a lot of investors didn’t take that on because they said, “The rates are too high.”

The thing that we have to remember about investing is it’s a business decision. It is not an emotional decision. If the numbers work, the numbers work. If you’re buying at a higher amount, rents are going up. Now we’re over 8% year over year. It’s going to continue to go up. It means that those of us that have that are going to make money on our rental properties. If the numbers work, buy the property. That’s the bottom line. We don’t have the same situation. We don’t have the same pain points that we had when we had the bubble that everyone talks about. We’ll have inflation for a while, but we’ll be in a recession for a longer period of time.

It won’t be the quick ones that we’ve been seeing or, “We had one. We’re out of it.” We’re going to be in it for a little bit longer as the market adjusts and everything. Now is definitely the time to be looking and investing because our values continue to rise. My house is $1.5 million. My value has gone down 1.3% in 2022. That’s the higher end. When you look at the mainstream, you’re going to see values are continuing to increase because everyone wants to have the opportunity to have home ownership. There are a lot of sayings going out there with lenders. This will be the last point of this. Date the rate and marry the mortgage or the house.

If we can say, “Let’s stop renting for the renters. Let’s start looking at a temporary rate increase, but let’s buy the house because that is elevating.” If we can combine all those pieces for the people that are looking at buying or renting houses from us, this is the perfect time to be buying. I know everybody says that. That’s always the perfect time in real estate, but if ever there was a time, it’s now. With COVID, there were a lot of people that didn’t have to make their mortgage payments. We had some of that in the market where the government said, “You don’t have to make your mortgage payment.”

The realization is that’s coming due now. Regardless of whether someone has good equity or not, if they owe $30,000 in back payments on their mortgage because they took that easing, they’re going to have to sell it quickly, which means they’re going to have to lower their price and it’s going to be available for more of us to get. We have to have our eyes and ears open for every opportunity right now.

Could you break this down a little bit more for me? That was a high level. I understood everything you said, but I know there are a lot of ladies that have not been in the mortgage industry. They’re not going to know a lot of those terms and how that comes together, that trifecta that you talked about. Talk a little bit more about that piece that you said. Date the rate, marry the house or the mortgage and divorce the renter. Let’s break that down a little bit more.

I’m not one anymore, you know that, but my family still is in the business. I coach loan officers. What they’re saying, this is speaking from the owner-occupied piece of this or the primary residence piece, is to divorce your rent because your rent is going up 8%. People are getting forced out of the market even for rentals. That’s supply and demand again.

If someone is selling their home, they might be looking at renting instead of buying again because they’re waiting for rates to come down. What’s happened is a big supply has come into non-owner-occupied investment properties. Rents are now going up. This is because of low inventory across the country anyway. We have such a lack of housing. This is why we have more homeless people too. That’s that part of it.

We’re telling owner-occupied primary people to stop renting and start buying regardless of what the rate is. Date the rate because you’re only going to have it for a period of time but get the mortgage. The bottom line is I don’t care if your rate is 2.5% or 3%, you will refinance at some point because you will have a life event that requires you to refinance.

Interest Rates: Stop renting and start buying regardless of what the rate is.

Take out that equity that you created or get a home equity line. Those are at 10%. When you look at your blended rate, it’s better for you to refinance and take cash out than it is for you to have that low first and that high second. It’s better for you to do that. People will let go of these great rates that they have. I know they’re holding onto them so tight, but your house is sitting there with equity.

It’s doing nothing other than gaining equity, but it’s not in the flow of cash. That’s the problem. It’s, “Great. You have equity. Look at me.” It’s not in the flow of developing more cash and creating more wealth for you. That’s part of it. The other part of this is that when people buy houses, they were in their homes for 5 to 7 years. Now we’re looking at 7 to 10 years because we’re holding on longer. We’re afraid of the competition. It’s like, “Where do we go? What do we do now?”

There’s a little bit longer hold but people historically only keep their mortgages for 4 or 5 years. Call it a holding strategy. You have an entrance holding and exit strategy. Your holding strategy is how long will you have the house and the mortgage. For investors, where the challenge comes in when rates are higher is that it’s a fixed cost. It’s a fixed expense. You run your numbers and the numbers work. You buy the property and rents will go up over time anyway. The challenge is that if you buy a prior interest rate, then you have to refinance it at some point to have a better cashflow. That is costly. It’s difficult to do through traditional methods. It’s available in non-traditional methods, but it’s going to be at a higher rate.

When rates go down, you may find yourself refinancing to something that’s slightly lower, maybe not as low, but slightly lower, even in the Non-QM world, or Non-Qualifying Mortgage world. Again, we buy properties for a couple of reasons, cashflow, appreciation, and tax benefits. If the cashflow is there, buy it. If appreciation is happening, buy it. If you’re getting the tax benefit, buy it. What are you waiting for?

Regardless of what’s happening, the odds are you’re going to refinance at some point in time as equity continues to grow. That’s more of a breakdown of it. Again, you talked about your loan. When I got into the mortgage business in 1983, rates were 18.5% and people were still buying. It’s crazy. People say to me all the time, “Inflation was lower, the values of homes and our income were lower. Every bit of it is all relative.” People will still buy. People still need a place to live.

People are still going to have credit challenges and have to rent. That is to our benefit. People will still have the inability to qualify for a mortgage. That’s where we come in and can help provide them with housing. I look at investing as not only creating wealth and a legacy for myself, but I’m at that point in my life and age where I’m giving back. We learn, earn, and return. A lot of the investments that I do are for helping people get into homes where they normally wouldn’t have been able to.

I’m doing very similar things. I love that. Learn, earn, and return because you and I are at that same stage of life where we’re more on the return side. The way that we view investing is very different than what we did years ago, for instance.

When you were talking about supply and demand, ladies, this translates into buyer’s markets and seller’s markets. There are always cycles one way or the other. Right now, even though we’re seeing inflation and stuff like that, it still feels like it’s a seller’s market because of inventory. Would you agree with me on that?

In certain pockets, because I coach across the country and I hear a lot of different things. We call this cycle the silly season. Anytime when the cycle happens, when you know you’re getting to the peak of the seller’s side of this where the sellers are in control, when you have a seller’s market, when everything starts getting a little silly, then you’re going to see that we’re going to go down in. It’ll start turning into a buyer’s market. For a certain period of time, it was a buyer’s market because sellers were so greedy. There’s this thing called Fear and Greedy Index that you can look up on Google where sellers were so greedy because values were up, rates were down, it’s COVID, don’t even look at the house.

We went under contract in a minute and they got greedy and then rates went up and the buyers backed off and then they got into fear. Now that the buyers are coming back out and saying, “This is what the market will be, where you get it, we’re more normal. We understand it. Maybe I can walk through this a little bit better.”

In some pockets, we are seeing some unbelievably silly things. In fact, I’m accumulating some of the things that we’re seeing. There was a contract that was written on an owner-occupied house not too long ago that I saw the contract. In the contract, it said that the seller could name the family who was moving in their first dog. That’s not allowed.

There were offers on a home and one of the clients that made the offer called the listing agent and said, “How much credit card debt does the seller have? Instead of offering more money, we’re going to offer to pay off all of their credit card debt.” Buyers are clients, which means when we see these silly things coming in, these videos of, “We love your house and if we don’t get it,” this is what we’re starting to see now. You know you’re in the silly season and you’re at the peak of the seller’s market.

It’s a good idea though because it affects taxes instead of paying more for a property to pay off their credit card debt. Now we don’t have property taxes on that but they get more money. That’s very clever.

However, the value doesn’t go up either.

That’s true. It’s all a balancing act but you work the numbers. What I’m hearing from you is that if we’re in the silly period and we’re at the top of the seller’s market, then there will be a pullback. How do we justify purchasing now as opposed to waiting for that pullback? You know this. Everybody is trying to time the market. If you don’t have to buy as investors, you are going to try to time the market. Let’s talk a little bit about that conversation we had about this possible turn.

Interest Rates: There will be a pullback, especially if we’re in the silly period and at the top of the seller’s market.

The disruptor in me is I don’t try to time the market anymore. I learned that if I hold it long enough, it’ll come back. You never know when it was the best time until you’re past that. You go, “Now the values are up, I miss that time.” When they go down, you go, “I missed that time.” You’ll never know that. Trying to time the market is difficult. The investment strategy for investors is to put a line in the sand on what you will and won’t do and don’t pass that line. For me, it’s the bottom line. For us, we have a certain cashflow, appreciation, and rooms. We all have this certain 3 bedrooms, 4 bedrooms, 2 baths.

We have certain things that we look for in the avatar of the home that we’re purchasing that we’re going to invest in. Many of us cross over that line by trying to time the market and saying, “Normally, I wouldn’t buy this but it’s a good time to buy so I will.” That’s when you get into trouble. Date the course, know exactly what the home avatar is for you, and don’t try to time the market. Again, if the numbers work, the numbers work. We’ve had to do this maybe once or twice. We didn’t lose our portfolio during the Great Recession or anything. The worst-case scenario is that we have converted rentals into our own wrap.

We’re doing our own wrap around our own mortgage to a subject to and sell the property. If we have them free and clear, we offer it as a land contract and say, “With more rentals, let’s go with land contracts so we don’t have to worry about all the expenses, etc.” I’m not concerned about appreciation or depreciation. We had to do that with two of our properties that were in quirky areas. Generally, if you’re buying in the right area that does, we already know the East Coast, West Coast, and Mid-Coast. In the Mid-Coast, you’re safer than any place else to make your investments because they don’t succumb to the highs and lows of what’s happening in the market.

Interest Rates: If you’re buying in the right area, you’re safer than any place else to make your investments because they don’t succumb to the highs and lows of what’s happening in the market.

I agree with you. I never timed the market and even when I bought my very first property years ago at 8% or whatever, everybody thought we were crazy. The market had gone up 50% in two years. I was paying this rate even though it looked great. We couldn’t afford the home. We were scraping for dimes to make this mortgage. We had to get a roommate. People thought we were nuts.

For us, it’s always been, “They thought you were buying at the peak of the market or whatever.” It did correct a little bit. I always say to my ladies, make sure you’ve got the time to be right which is the way that you are saying. Hold it. You need to be in the market long-term. Whatever you buy now, even itself out and over the long-term, it’s going to go up, at least in good markets. Do your research on the market. That’s an important thing.

It’ll go up over the years anyway. A lot of people get into investing where they’re like, “I’m going to buy a house as owner-occupied. I’m going to live in it for two years, sell it and buy more investment or another house and sell it. That’s how I’m going to make money, or I’m going to buy it and rent it out two years later.” That’s when you get into trouble. You need to go in with the thought of, “I’m holding this for the long haul and what is that holding strategy so that I know what my exit strategy is.” That’s so important for people to understand because this is in any market. I see it in the lending business.

I’m sure anybody who’s a real estate agent tuning in sees it as well. When it’s good, everybody flocks to it. They all want to be part of it. In this case, right now, it’s a horrible time for mortgage lenders. Many of them are leaving, “I’m done. I can’t do it anymore.” Some are self-selecting. They’ve been in the business for 20 or 30 years. They’re like, “I’m done. I’m going to move on to something else.”

We also have whole-hearted people that came in and said, “I heard you guys make tons of money so I’m going to get in,” and then immediately, they’re out. I celebrated 40 years in that industry in 2023. Forty years of staying power is where I’ve reached all the great heights. You can’t reach those great heights doing shots of, “I’ll try this.” It’s all shiny object syndrome, which is SOS for help.

Jen, could you talk a little bit about some of the newer products that are showing up on the market? I know the answers and they’re exciting. I was hoping you could share some of those.

The first one that comes to mind is the one I mentioned a few minutes ago. I feel that because of the lack of inventory, there’ve been a lot of private investors or private lender investors, I call them investors too, that are allowing for new construction, buy and hold, buy and rent. If you have some experience in that or you can team up with a builder, that’s a good place to go. It sounds like you know more about the products that are out there than I am.

I’m in the market, looking right now.

One of the things that the lenders are doing is trying to be more flexible, offering extensions without penalties and things like that. We know that what looked good maybe isn’t good. It’s funny because I personally invested in a fix and flip for my money, not me, down in Florida with a guy who’s got 1,000 properties under his belt and like, “I’m going to fix it. I’m going to flip it and I’m going to sell it quickly.” It went quickly. It was a 12-month thing, I got my money back in four months. Someone right down the street who was doing the same thing has had to have two extensions.

It’s like that movie Twister where it hits your house and not another and this market but not another. Lenders have been very flexible at making sure that we maintain this industry of investors by allowing for very creative ways to not foreclose on properties for investors. We don’t want the property. We’re not in the business to hold property. I’m seeing a lot more flexibility in that. There is a tightening on the DSCR. It used to be that we could do 1.1 and stuff like that. I’m seeing, “It’s got to be at 1.2 or higher.” That’s what I’m seeing there.

Explain what you mean by that.

It’s the Debt Service Coverage Ratio. We look at what your gross rents are minus all of your expenses and get to your net income or adjusted gross income if that’s what you want, and then compare that to the rent. We want to have a 1.25 ratio, meaning that you’re collecting 0.25 over the expenses. Whereas before, we had a little crunch because we didn’t care so much. You may not be getting a lot of cashflow, but you’ve got a good appreciation. It’s a solid property and it’s in a solid area.

Now they’re like, “We want to see that stretch a little bit more to give us a little more cushion.” There’s a little tightening up of qualifying ratios basically. That’s what I see on the bad side of things right now with most of the property. Syndications are growing exponentially. They’re growing from multifamily into medical buildings because medicine is a big thing. Veterinarian buildings because more people got pets during COVID. That’s growing and storage facilities. That’s also growing for syndication. Those are the things that I’m seeing out in the market. What are you seeing? I want to know what you’re seeing.

I’m in the market to refinance a construction loan. We’re finished up on a construction project and I would like to hold one of them. We’re selling. We’ve got two on the market. We’ll sell one and I want to hold one. For the very first time in my entire life, I’ve got a commercial piece which I have some little experience with. I want the time to get it right as far as who I’m going to put in there.

Right now, commercial is such an interesting market. I’m having to learn a lot. I’m in the market for a refinance on this loan. Ladies, I don’t know if you know anything about construction, but normally, in a construction loan, they have this buyout rollover where it goes from construction into a permanent 15-year or 30-year loan.

It’s called construction to perm.

This particular loan that we got, they did not do that so I keep getting an extension on my construction loan, which is a very expensive way to go. We need to do our own permanent loan to get out from under that. I don’t want to say it that way, but change the way that the asset is being financed. For us, we’re looking at a couple of things. We don’t qualify personally for the actual loan that’s going to require buying that out. What do we do then? There are a couple of things we are looking at. One is the bank balance loan, which is a new product on the market. Have you heard about this?

No. I haven’t heard of this one.

This one is they strictly look at cashflow on your bank statements.

I know bank statement loans. I thought you were doing some other way of saying it. Bank statement loans have been around for many years.

They’re becoming much more accessible it seems. They’re being marketed more to all of us. They were one of those things that only certain people seem to know about or were told about. We’re starting to hear a lot more about bank statement loans in the market, which is nice. For a lot of us, real estate investors, our taxes show significantly less income because we’re depreciating. You add those numbers back again. A lot of lenders won’t do that when they’re qualifying you. They take the tax returns as they are. The bank statement loan allows you to see your true inflow and outflow, which is cool.

Some other things we’re looking at is the possibility of going to self-directed IRAs where people have these self-directed lump sums but they haven’t done anything with them. Going to the custodians and asking them to put together a pool of investors that might have $100,000 each or whatever and syndicating that. You don’t have to do an SEC syndication. You’re doing it through the custodian, you pull that together, and you make that alone. These aren’t cheap options. You’re usually going to pay a little bit higher rate for that, but it gets you to the next step, which is what we’re looking for. Those are some of the things that we’re looking at.

It’s solutions. That’s why my mortgage company is called Solutions because mortgage solutions are situational lending. I want to make sure we back this up a little bit. On the bank statement loan, what you’re referencing, and I believe I spoke about this last time we talked, but in the world of lending, there’s QM, which is a Qualified Mortgage, which is traditional Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA/VA.

After the Great Recession, the Dodd-Frank Bill was elevated. They elevated the government to say, “As long as you have this set of criteria met by your borrower, Mr. Mortgage Company, or the bank that’s doing lending, that’s considered a qualifying mortgage. We, the government, will back that mortgage. If it goes into foreclosure, we’ll help you get out of it.”

Remember we had all these short sales and we couldn’t figure out who owned the property because we all owned them in our 401(k)s? That’s a qualifying mortgage. In traditional financing, you go qualifying mortgage. When you start getting into the investor world, there are a couple of different options. Most people leave the mortgage company the QM and now it’s difficult. There’s no cash out available in that market. That’s why I said there’s no cash out there. They’ve lowered the loan-to-values, meaning you have to have more money invested in it. They don’t want to do investors right now.

Most people will go to their bank looking for a commercial loan. Now that’s nails on a chalkboard for an investor, especially if you own a lot of property. They want everything. They want every lease. You name it, they want it. They go for a commercial loan. Let’s say the rate here is X. This rate and the bank is going to be X-plus. It’s going to be slightly bigger or higher, but it’s going to kill you to figure it out. Good luck qualifying.

We then go to non-QM and this is the market that I play in. This is where the fix and flips are. You can’t get fix and flips by calling the mortgage person that you got your primary house from unless they have non-QM financing. These are properties and borrowers that don’t fit into the traditional qualified mortgage. They’re non-qualified mortgages. I own too many properties. My credit score doesn’t fit the criteria as a non-owner occupied with QM. Now I have to go here because you may have your credit pulled all the time looking at houses.

You don’t fit that. You don’t have the reserve requirements. The property is funky. It’s quirky and has more than four units. That’s non-QM. The bank statement loan that you’re talking about has been in place for many years in that world. It’s always been there. It is a great program for self-employed and investors. I’m familiar with that. The way that you said it made me think, “What is that?” It’s a lot of terminologies and understanding that non-QM is for investors in those bank statement loans. I have a client who has funded over $20 million a year in mortgage loans in non-QM.

By the way, it’s owner-occupied over here too. If you don’t qualify over here, you’re a day out of bankruptcy or foreclosure. You’d have to wait. Over here or here, you can get that loan pretty quickly. It’s X-plus-plus but the difference is, how long do you want to wait? 7 or 5 years and miss a gazillion different cycles of markets, miss all the tax benefits, miss all of the appreciation and the pride of homeownership as well. That’s where we’re saying don’t look at this in all consumers. Please don’t look at everything as what you’re seeing on the news or what you did when you were owner-occupied because it’s totally different.

If you can’t get a loan through non-QM, then you go to the back alleys and look for the hard money and the private lending that is X-plus-plus-plus. You don’t go from, “I went to my bank. They won’t approve me for a non-owner occupied, so I’m going to go to a back alley.” There’s a path you should be going through to find the right terms to fit you.

What other kinds of non-QM loans are there? Are there some other products other than the bank statement loan?

There’s a bank statement and equity. They look at equity. For the investor, they’re mostly run by DSCR, the Debt Service Coverage Ratio. We go from ratios of income to ratios of property now that we’re looking at the property. What’s great here is that there are adjustable-rate mortgages and 30-year terms. That’s fairly new because a few years ago, there weren’t 30-year terms. It was a 30-year due in 5. That’s 30 due in 15, a 25, or a 5-year.

Now we’re seeing a lot more buy-and-holds in that arena. Mostly because the non-QM world has figured out that it doesn’t have to be private money. It can be securitized on Wall Street the same way that a commercial loan and then an owner-occupied or QM loan, even if it’s non-owner are all securitized by Wall Street. Now they have more money behind them and those investors want stability. They don’t want short-term gain. They want a long-term. They’ve opened that up for long-term investing in that side.

There are adjustables, interest only, 30-year fix, owner occupied, or non-owner occupied. What I do with my company, situational lending is non-owner occupied and non-QM. I don’t do anything else. I’ve got some sources for private and back alley hard money. That’s the financing I do now. I don’t get involved in any of this anymore. If you’ve been turned down, then you can come to me. I would say skip over your bank if you don’t want to go through hell. It is a pain in the butt.

I want to get to EXTRA. We’re going to be talking in EXTRA, ladies, about this whole idea of not working in and on your business but working above and beyond your business. This is a pretty high-level strategy. Jen is amazing at it. I do want to cover it because it’s not something we’ve ever talked about. We’re going to say goodbye on this portion of the show and we’re going to go to EXTRA. Jen, how can people reach you or reach your company and your other mortgage brokers if they want to get in touch?

The best way is to text JEN to 26786. That starts getting us connected. You can always reach me at JenDuPlessis.com and someone on my team or myself will reach out to you no matter what your questions are. I’m a speaker, a coach, and a mentor. I have masterminds and all of those things going on. If you want to find out more about how to work with me or how you could work with me, if this resonates with you, send it to [email protected] and then I’ll sort you into which company works best for you.

Thank you. Stay tuned. We’ve got more. For those of you who have not subscribed to EXTRA, you can do that by going to RealEstateInvestingForWomenEXTRA.com. For those of you that are leaving us now, thank you so much for joining Jen and me for this portion of the show. I look forward to seeing you next time. Until then, remember, goals without action are dreams. Get out there, take action, and create the life your heart deeply desires. I’ll see you soon. Bye.

Important Links

• Jen Du Plessis
• [email protected]
• RealEstateInvestingForWomenExtra.com

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Moneeka Sawyer

Moneeka Sawyer is often described as one of the most blissful people you will ever meet.   She has been investing in Real Estate for over 20 years, so has been through all the different cycles of the market.  Still, she has turned $10,000 into over $5,000,000, working only 5-10 hours per MONTH with very little stress.

While building her multi-million dollar business, she has traveled to over 55 countries, dances every single day, supports causes that are important to her, and spends lots of time with her husband of over 20 years.

She is the international best-selling author of the multiple award-winning books “Choose Bliss: The Power and Practice of Joy and Contentment” and “Real Estate Investing for Women: Expert Conversations to Increase Wealth and Happiness the Blissful Way.”

Moneeka has been featured on stages including Carnegie Hall and Nasdaq, radio, podcasts such as Achieve Your Goals with Hal Elrod,  and TV stations including ABC, CBS, FOX, and the CW, impacting over 150 million people.