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Welcome to the Syndication Series!


Hello Ladies!

I am so excited to be sharing with you the Syndication Series!  In this series you will learn all about what syndication is, and how it can help you to grow your cash flow and build your wealth.

The guests featured in this series were picked because of their reputation in the industry and because I trust them.  There are a lot of syndicators out there, so this will help get you started with a few.

Keep in mind that I can’t guarantee any results, so make sure that you do your own due diligence on these operators and any deals you send them.  But at least this way you will have a short-list to start researching.

Here are the guests that will be featured over the next 6 weeks: (links to episodes will become live when the episode releases)


Dr. Samuel Giordano 

We will start this series with Dr. Sam, who will share with us a tool he has created to help you evaluate different syndication deals that you are considering.  Samuel Giordano, MD, is a practicing gastroenterologist, author, real estate investor, and co-founder of passiveadvantage.com, a website designed to help physicians and other high-income professionals vet passive real estate syndication deals. He and his partner Terry Kipp have designed tools specifically geared toward passive limited partner investors to help objectify and bring to light the risk points of various real estate syndication deals before choosing to invest. The tool also has built-in functionality for tracking investment performance vs proforma, as well as a separate tool for tracking your progress on the path to financial independence. He has been investing in passive syndication deals as a limited partner since 2017, and initially developed the tool for himself. Now, he is focused on helping other physician investors and bringing it to the masses. His ultimate goal for himself and others is financial freedom and to be able to live the life of our choosing on our own terms. 

Listen to Dr. Sam’s episode here.

LIVE now!


Monick Halm

Monick Halm (one of the sponsors of this series) is the founder of Real Estate Investor Goddesses. She is an educator and advocate for female real estate investors, and has a mission to help 1 million women achieve financial freedom through real estate. Monick is herself a real estate investor and syndicator, and owns, together with her investors, over 1300 rental units across six states.

She is also a #1 bestselling author, podcast host, Real Estate Strategy Mentor, wife, and mother of three amazing kids. 

Listen to Monick’s episode here.

LIVE now!


Chris Larsen

Chris Larsen is the founder and Managing Partner of Next-Level

Income. Chris has been investing in and managing real estate for over 20 years.

While still a college student, he bought his first rental property at age 21. From

there, Chris expanded into development, private-lending, buying distressed

debt as well as commercial offices, and ultimately syndicating multifamily

properties. He began syndicating deals in 2016 and has been actively involved

in over $225 million of real estate acquisitions. Chris is passionate about helping investors become financially independent. 

Listen to Chris’s episode here.

LIVE now!



 To further support you, I am holding 2 webinars where you can ask questions LIVE.  ATTEND BOTH to get both perspectives (investor and operator)  and ask all your questions LIVE!

Webinar 1: Speak to Successful Syndication Investor LIVE!

Dr. Sam is a passive investor in Syndications and will show you exactly how he evaluates deals to make sure they are safe and meet his goals.

This webinar will be held on Thursday Nov 18 at 5pm PST.

Sign up at blissfulinvestor.com/samwebinar



Eng Taing

Eng Taing is the CEO & Founder of Touzi Capital, a real estate investment company focused on investing in Kansas City who believe that your money should work for you. Touzi Capital have been investing in commercial real estate for many years and trust that this is one of the best ways to predictably build wealth through passive income.Touzi Capital focuses on high cash flow investments and providing passive income to investors by acquiring and optimizing multifamily, industrial and senior living assets. In doing this, they want to make real estate investing accessible for the everyday investor through a technology and data driven platform along with our dedicated team that puts you first. In this episode we explore the vast opportunities that Opportunity Zones provide. 

Listen to Eng’s episode here (when available)

To release on 11/23



Liz Faircloth

Liz Faircloth co-founded the DeRosa Group in 2005 with her husband, Matt. The DeRosa Group, based in Trenton, NJ, is an owner of commercial and residential property with a mission to “transform lives through real estate.” DeRosa has vast experience in bringing properties to their highest and best use, which includes repositioning single family homes, multi-family, apartment buildings, mixed-use, retail, and office space. The company controls close to 1000 units of residential and commercial assets throughout the east coast.  Liz is the co-founder of The Real Estate InvestHER® community, a platform to empower women to live a financially free and balanced life through over 25 Meetups across the US and Canada and an on-line community and membership that offers accountability and mentorship for women to take their business to the next level! She is the co-host of the “The Real Estate InvestHER Show” and recently published their first book, “The Only Woman in the Room – Knowledge and Inspiration from 20 Successful Real Estate Women Investors!”

Listen to Liz’s episode here (when available)

To release on 11/30


Webinar 2: Speak to a Syndication Operator LIVE!

Chris Larsen. He is an Operator and is actually the guy putting investors together to fund deals.  You can ask him any questions about how syndications run, what to look for in an operator, and what he is looking for in investors.

This webinar will be on Thursday Dec 2 at 4pm PST.

Sign up at blissfulinvestor.com/syndicationwebinar




Reed Goossens

Reed is a  REAL ESTATE INVESTOR, BEST SELLING AUTHOR, ENTREPRENEUR, PODCAST HOST AND ALL-ROUND GOOD BLOKE! In 2012, Reed quit his job in Australia and moved half way across the globe to the US to change his life, and to chase a dream. With limited funds, no investing experience, and no credit, Reed went from purchasing a small duplex to growing his own real estate investing firm, Wildhorn Capital. Reed now syndicates large multi-million dollar deals across the US. He has also achieved financial freedom, and has taken control of life.  IF REED CAN MOVE- HALF WAY ACROSS THE WORLD and achieve financial freedom, then so can you!

Listen to Reed’s episode here (when available)

To release on 12/7




Mother’s Day Edition – The Impact Of Family On My Business And Success With Reed Goossens – Real Estate Women


Many see investing as a male dominating world but for Moneeka Sawyer, a real estate investor and author of Choose Bliss: The Power and Practice of Joy and Contentment, it is an industry where real estate women like her can be influential as well. She joins Reed Goossens as she shares how her experience recovering from an accident and her family have a great impact on her business’ success throughout the years. Moneeka also wants to use this opportunity to empower women in the industry and show the world what they got.

Listen to the podcast here:

Mother’s Day Edition – The Impact Of Family On My Business And Success With Reed Goossens – Real Estate Women

Real Estate Investing For Women

Ladies, I hope you had an amazing Mother’s Day weekend. I was trying to think of what I could do to honor Mother’s Day because I feel like it’s a very special holiday. I always want to honor our moms who supported us to become the women that we are now. I was on Reed Goossens‘ show and he did the most amazing interview, where he brought out so much about my family that hasn’t been shared. Since I think of moms as the core of the family, I thought of featuring a show about family, what it means to me and how it has impacted my life. Hopefully, it’s inspirational and helpful to you also. Enjoy the show.

I have the pleasure of speaking with Moneeka Sawyer. She is a lifestyle-focused real estate investor with an emphasis on helping more women succeed in the real estate industry. Moneeka has been investing for many years and she has truly created a life-by-design business, where she only spends between 5 to 10 hours a week working on her business and helping inspire other people to be more successful in real estate. She’s also the bestselling author of the book, Choose Bliss: The Power and Practice of Joy and Contentment, which was honored at the very prestigious Women of Impact Quill Award. I’m pumped and excited to have her on the show to share her incredible experience and her insight and knowledge. Moneeka, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

I’m doing great. Thank you so much for having me, Reed. I have to say one correction that’s worth mentioning. It’s 5 to 10 hours a month.

I must have skim-read that part.

That’s what people assume and that’s why I like to point it out. It’s amazing what’s possible. We can do 5 to 10 hours a week. We could also do 5 to 10 hours a month. It’s what’s good for you.

Tell us about more of your upbringing and how you value a dollar through your childhood. That’s an important step to start with to craft the story around what you created.

My story begins with my parents. My parents were immigrants. They came to the country with $200 in their pocket and a dream of building a life that was amazing for their children. They had heard that the golden ticket to wealth in the United States was to invest in real estate. When they got here, they immediately started saving their nickels and dimes. My mom is an MD, but she couldn’t work as a doctor here. She would sew the curtains for her house or the pillows for her sofa so she could save all those nickels and dimes but still have this beautiful home that she would expect for herself as a doctor, and then I was born. Their hearts were filled with love, joy and excitement for this new child. They’ve invested in their very first real estate investment project. It was land. They stayed focused on that their whole life and fast forward many years, they paid for my college education through real estate.

I grew up watching that whole thing. It was a topic of conversation. This is an interesting thing that happens in Indian families. Not all Indian families, but many. We do have a very open conversation about money. I got to hear about the stresses that my parents were going through, whether my mom needed to go through residency again to be able to practice here or my dad being discriminated against at work. They came here in 1967 and we lived in Ohio. It was a very white community. People were still very kind and they still had great jobs, but there were also people who were not kind who discriminated against them. I heard all of this stuff.

[bctt tweet=”Bliss is a deep sense of joy, contentment, and that confidence that no matter what happens in life, you can handle it.” via=”no”]

One of the things that impressed upon me was that it was important to me to be able to make money myself and not be dependent on anybody else, which is an interesting dichotomy because Indian women wanted me to have an arranged marriage. A man was supposed to be able to take care of me, but then on the other side, I needed to be fully independent. Talk about mixed messages. What was interesting is my mom and dad would not let me work. I was a girl. I needed to study. I needed to go to college. I needed to get married, but I also needed to be a professional so I could support my husband to make a lot of money.

As I was growing up, I wasn’t allowed to work. I wanted to. I would read Entrepreneur Magazine. I don’t know if anybody remembers the old Entrepreneur Magazine where they had all these binders of businesses that you could start. You can pay $99 and you would get this business startup pack for anything, a wedding planner or a banker. There are all these things. I would buy them. I was so hungry, but I wasn’t allowed to work. I wasn’t allowed to go out there. My very first job was at Jack in the Box when I was seventeen and I bagged. I felt like I was dating because that was another thing I was not allowed to do. I was going to have an arranged marriage. I would sneak out so I could go work. It was so naughty. I had developed an appreciation for money. Dad had started to talk to me about real estate when I was very young. I got my very first allowance, which was very little. Even in those days, he taught me about budgeting. I opened a checking account and started writing checks. I was very fortunate that way. He taught me a lot about the practicality of money and the role that it plays in our life.

Thank you for being vulnerable and honest. That’s probably the most intriguing dollar story I’ve heard. I get so many people on the show like, “I have mowed lawns.” I was like, “Don’t say mowed lawns. Say something better.” You’ve had the opposite of having to try and fit in as a kid and probably see your other friends out working at McDonald’s or wherever it is. They had money to buy dresses and go out on the weekends and be teenagers. You had the other traditional side of your upbringing and your heritage, which is important. Not to pull you that, but it’s what your values that your parents wanted to instill in you. It’s very humorous that your parents were like, “You got to make money and land on your own two feet, but you can’t. We want to give you an arranged marriage.” What were the conversations around the dinner table when you wanted to break away from being that first-generation American and break away from the norms that probably your parents were brought up with back in India?

It was hard. I’ll preface this by saying, I am absolutely crazy about my parents. They’re the two most beautiful people on the planet. I am so fortunate to have had them guiding me through my journey in life, but growing up was hard. It was hard in our environment because I’m not white and we grew up in very white areas because of my parents’ jobs. Out in the world, it was tough for me. At home, that was my sanctuary and my parents were so scared. They used to watch General Hospital. They saw all the drama on television. Because they hadn’t grown up in this country, they were scared that horrible things were going to happen to their girls.

REW 57 | Real Estate Women

Choose Bliss: The Power and Practice of Joy and Contentment

They held on so tight and were so protective. Very young, I became very secretive. I would have to sneak out to go do my job. I sneaked out for everything. I didn’t talk to them about anything because I was afraid that they would be so afraid, then they would hold me up in the tower of safety in our home and I couldn’t do anything. I couldn’t go out with friends. I couldn’t work. I was in all honors classes and my honors classes started at 7:00 in the morning. My mom and dad were afraid to let me go to honors classes because “Who goes to school at 7:00 in the morning?” I did. I wanted to get into a good university. You can see this misunderstanding of what life is like.

Indians do this too and a lot of cultures do this, yelling and screaming on top of our lungs, “I love you, but you are so wrong.” I don’t think it was dysfunctional. It was truly authentic and honest because we got to the bottom of stuff and there was never a dearth of love for us. No matter how angry we got, we were a unit and we loved each other like crazy. We always had that as children growing up. Even now, I never felt that there is a moment that there is no unconditional love in my life and that’s because of them.

I will also reflect back to you that I came from a very similar family, not necessarily traditional. We live in Australia. It was Aussies being Aussies. It’s that whole unconditional love and bringing in. I even remember bringing my wife and she came from a broken family, and how intense it can be sometimes. She felt outside like, “I didn’t have this growing up. You’re very lucky, not many people have this.” I was very similar to you that there was that unconditional love. Everything that they thought came from a position of love and they said, “I want to protect the girls and they can’t do this, that or the other,” but it probably made you very cheeky in terms of going out and escaping, and having to do things on your own ways to feel like you had a life.

I’m very independent, but it was also interesting. I went to UC Berkeley and I had a lot of my other Indian girlfriends who had had a similar experience. They went to UC Berkeley and we were all like, “We get to hang out at school.” What was funny was that I went out there and I was like, “I’m here to learn. I wanted to start a business my entire life. I’m going to go to business school.” For UC Berkeley, you have to re-apply for business school. I was like, head down, “I’m going to make this happen. My life is my life. I’m in control. I don’t have to sneak around to work or study.” I was so excited. All my friends got into drugs and alcohol and not in a bad way. They were all still smart. It’s just college kids being college kids, but they were all into the party. All my old childhood friendships fell apart because my version of freedom was creating the life of my dreams and their version of freedom was trying everything possible under the sun. It’s a very different perspective. I’m tenacious. I can be crazy, but it was all very focused on, “There is a life that I want and I’m going to go get it.”

Many people do it and myself included. When that freedom does come when you go to university, you do tend to rip the lid off. That’s not necessarily a bad thing because you then test your boundaries and you test where you need to pull your socks up, “You have stuff up. You’ve partied too hard over here. Now, you need to pull your socks up because you’re grades are failing.” I can sympathize with your friends but also with you in terms of having that freedom and understanding, “There’s so much more control of my life.” Even when I went to high school with the deputy principal’s son, I was very goody two shoes and not doing anything when I was a teenager.

When going to university, I started like, “Girls and alcohol. Holy crap,” but then realizing like I’m still very studious and my grades were suffering. You had to make that choice in life. That’s interesting when you were at university back to the story of the girlfriends from Ohio, going to UC Berkeley and then having different perspectives. You do eventually drifted away because of different priorities in life. That’s okay. That’s the point of going to university. The point of figuring yourself out is for all these things to happen. I love that story.

It’s funny because sometimes I think I robbed myself of all that fun. I was so focused on what I wanted and I didn’t slow down and notice that there was fun out there. I could go party. I could have it all. It didn’t have to be mutually exclusive. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve relaxed quite a lot. I’m not quite that focusing crazy.

[bctt tweet=”Don’t wish away those moments that you’re going to miss so much when they’re gone. Don’t wish away your life. Enjoy every single moment. ” via=”no”]

It’s a good segue into the bliss. What is bliss? Part of what I’m hearing from you at a young age is what you thought you had to do in order to be successful. A lot of entrepreneurs that I interview on the show do get the blinkers on and are just crazy. They take certain priorities that are business over health, life or love, and things start to whine. They realize that they don’t have a life. The purpose of all that we do, whether it be at university or in creating something from nothing in businesses. It is to enjoy the journey because it’s not ultimately the mountain top we scale, but it’s you only live one life. Enjoy it now. We have this social media anxiety. We always got to be comparing ourselves and “I always got to have something more to do.” It’s such an interesting bliss that I want to talk about with you because I know you’ve got a lot to give on that piece.

We only get to the mountain top for a little while and then we look around and we got to go back down. If you don’t enjoy the journey, then all you get is that ten minutes on the mountain and then you’re climbing another mountain. Bliss is a deep sense of joy, contentment, and that confidence that no matter what happens in life, you can handle it. It’s about emotional mastery and emotional resilience. That’s how I’m defining bliss. My journey or my passion is to help real estate investors, women, business owners, people in general, to let you enjoy that journey. Let me tell you a story. Your story is perfect, but I’m going to tell you another one.

I was in Iceland and we wanted to go see a glacier. It was a two-and-a-half-hour drive. We decided to do it. We were driving along and there are two ways that we can approach this. We can drive as fast as possible and make the two-and-a-half-hour drive two hours, or we can drive below the speed limit. We’re on vacation. Everybody is like, “Really?” We’re driving and looking around and enjoying the scenery, the terrain and the way that it changes. Here, it’s plants and waterfalls. Here, it’s lava. We’re getting out, taking pictures and stopping for lunch. The experience of going to that glacier was completely different by doing it that way. We had this beautiful journey that ended up taking us three hours. We got to the glacier. We hung out there for two hours. It was gorgeous and worth the journey. We drove back and enjoyed the drive back too. We went to dinner. Our next goal was to find a hotel and go to dinner.

That’s a good metaphor for life. Are you looking around? Are you having good meals? Is it okay that you take longer so that you can enjoy that journey? When you get to that goal, as fantastic as it is, being at that goal only lasts for a little while and then there’s another journey to another goal. Do you want to live your life jumping to ten minutes of bliss or do you want to enjoy the entire journey so you can enjoy all of it? That’s what I want people to get is whether it’s in real estate, whether it’s with your families, people are like, “I can’t wait until my kids go to kindergarten.” Don’t wish away those moments that you’re going to miss so much when they’re gone. Don’t wish away your life. Enjoy every single moment of it.

Have there been any losses in your life to understand that mindset shift? You do slow down because you clearly are the person who is hungry, who wants to hustle, who wants to prove to their parents that they can go up, do it and stand on their own two feet. Has anything happened in your life? You can say no, getting older and all that stuff. I know personally, I lost my mom. I’ve got a story for you that I wish I was at the life I live now before so I can spend more time with her. I live in America. She’s in Australia and I got home three days before she passed. I did a whole episode on priorities versus goals and how that we can sometimes shift them. Was there anything that shifted along your journey in the way that made you realize, “This is not a sprint. Let’s take the long journey. Let’s do lunch. Let’s enjoy the scenic route?”

REW 57 | Real Estate Women

Real Estate Women: Find ways to make the hustle livable so that you don’t burn out. You don’t want to get to the other side and be completely burnt out.


I have been very fortunate I have not experienced loss yet. We all do and I know that it’s coming. As I mentioned before, I’m madly in love with my parents. I want lots of time with them and with my sisters and nephew. We’re very family-oriented. That’s been ingrained in me, but the hustle didn’t stop. It transformed. When I was in a horrible car accident, I lost my legs. I was a professional dancer. That was the one thing I was allowed to do. Since I was five years old, I was dancing. I had a world reputation. I danced all over the world. When I was 21, I was in a horrible car accident that was not my fault. Someone hit me and my hips got dislocated, my back got thrown out and I became a cripple for a couple of years. I should have been into a chair but that’s another story.

I went through a huge depression during that time because everything about my life suddenly shifted. I just had gotten out of college. My new job disappeared. My fiancé left me because I wasn’t the same person anymore. I was a dancer dancing six hours a day. Now, I had no exercise. The chemistry in your body changes so fast. I gained so much weight, which aggravated a lot of the problems. I went through this horrible time. Fortunately, somehow I ended up getting married. My husband is a dream guy, but even marriage didn’t fix it, even having the money and taking care of. This is one of the things that we do as people. When things go wrong, we think, “If I have the love of my life, everything will be better. They’ll take care of it. They’ll save me,” whether it’s a man or a woman. I had that mentality from my upbringing. I got married to this beautiful man, but he didn’t fix it. He couldn’t. Nobody can fix your life. Only you can fix your life.

I remember I had a moment when I had gone through a huge depression. The pain wasn’t going away physically. My legs still weren’t working quite right. It had been 5 or 6 years. My marriage wasn’t fixing all the problems. I remember one day, I was lying in bed. I had been in bed for a week. I had been depressed. I had been sleeping. I heard my mom’s voice in my head. She said, “Moneeka, get out of bed and go get some air. You’ll feel better.” I had the covers over my head. I pushed them off of my head and swung my legs around to get out of bed to go for a walk. As I tried to stand on my legs, I fell to the ground because they were so weak, they couldn’t hold me. At that moment, I thought, “I can’t do this anymore.” I prayed and said to God, “Either have mercy on me and bring me home or teach me how to live.”

A girlfriend called about an hour later, who I hadn’t heard from for years. She turned me on to a coach and this coach taught me how to live. The very first thing that he talked to me about and I do this in all of my coursework is, “What are your values? Design your life not based on anybody’s expectations, not even your own because your own have often been given to you, but create a life based on those values and what’s important to you.” What was important to me was my relationships. No matter how much I wanted to hustle, how important a business was to me, my highest value was my relationships. That was what slowed me down and made me realize, “I can’t spend 80 hours a week. I have the capacity, but I can’t do it because my life feels bad.”

What do you say to those people who are in the hustle right now? They are trying to make ends meet. They are putting one foot in front of the other. They are in the grind right now. For you and I, we’ve both been in that grind. We’ve both been in that 80, 90, 100 hours a week. For me, personally, working a W2 job, trying to get out and become financially free in these situations, and all sort of stuff. What do you say to those people who are in that right now? How do you give confidence that it’s going to be okay?

The very first thing that I will talk to them about is, “What are their values? Why are they doing that hustle? What are the values that you’re trying to satisfy? What’s the goal that you’re trying to get to?” Find ways to make that hustle livable because, for some of us, it’s necessary. It was necessary for me. It was necessary for you. Find ways to make that livable so that you don’t burn out. You don’t want to get to the other side either and be completely burnt out. Set milestones for yourself. You’re hustling. You’re working an 80-hour week. When does that stop for you? Is it a year? When are you going to re-evaluate? The other thing is you may be hustling. You may not be hustling towards your goal. Things may not be working.

For me, if you’re in the hustle and you’re working that hard, every six months, re-evaluate, “Is this hustle going to get me where I want to go?” That way, you can pivot or refocus if you need to. Keep going. You want to keep re-evaluating and then get to that place where it doesn’t become a habit because hustling is adrenaline-filled. It can be exciting on many levels. It can become a habit and a distraction to what you want in your life. Those are the sorts of things I would tell them.

It’s so important to keep a level mindset in terms of running your own race because so many people compare themselves to other people. Back to your analogy of going up in Iceland, going up to that glacier, taking the long journey and it’s your journey. That’s okay that it’s your journey. It comes a lot from being self-aware. You have to take care of yourself mentally to allow yourself the mental freedom to not compare yourself constantly to other people because that is what we were. We’re always in this constant struggle of like, “So-and-so is doing this and I’m in my job. I haven’t broken free. I haven’t got financially free.”

[bctt tweet=”No one else can fix your life. Only you can. ” via=”no”]

It’s okay that you’re in that position. Give yourself some permission to allow yourself to be okay in that situation. It will change and know it will change over time. I think people forget that because they’re only looking at the 4×4 inches box. They’re not looking at the big picture. Sometimes you do have to take that time to make sure that you’re checking in, recalibrating if need be, and understanding that this needs to be sustainable growth in a hustle, not necessarily a burning out type of growth.

My youngest sister had a little boy. He’s the dream of everybody in the family. He’s adorable. His mom said something about his eye was a little bit off. They got it fixed or whatever. My other sister said, “Everybody should realize that he’s perfect the way he is as long as we don’t compare to other people.” It’s true. That was so profound. We’re all in our perfect place and we are perfect as long as we don’t succumb to comparing ourselves to others. Our life is ours. You may not feel like everything is going perfect, but trust that you are perfectly where you are and that you will get to where you want to go. It doesn’t matter what anybody else is doing.

I’m going to stuff up the quote, but I don’t know who the author was. It talks about LA is three hours behind New York, yet it’s three hours in front of Hawaii. It’s not that Hawaii is late or LA or New York is early. It’s their own time. You’re not late. You’re not early. You’re just on time because you’re running your own race. It compares the time in the world and it’s so true. You’re not late. You’re not early. You’re on time and it’s your time. It’s your journey and that’s okay. Tell me more about what you do in terms of how you’re giving back to the wider community. I bet you’ve got a great book that has got an incredible award. You’ve got your show going on and you’ve also got your real estate investment business. Talk about those three facets of what makes you tick now in the world.

I have a real estate show called Real Estate Investing for Women, where we focus on mindset, heartset, emotional mastery, money smarts and real estate strategy. It’s a very holistic approach to creating a blissful real estate business and creating wealth that way. That’s my big focus. I invest in executive properties. If anybody ever wanted to know what that is, come listen to my show. I have very streamlined strategies on how to keep everything blissful. I have that going on. One of the big bliss things for me is I give back to the community in teaching right through my show. I also am very involved in a school for the poor in India. That’s where a lot of my money goes. This is one of the things that we think about like, “Why are we building wealth? What does it allow us to do?” For me, it gives me the time freedom and financial freedom to do things in the bigger world. I can run my show. I can help children in India. I can spend more time with my family and my nephew or my friends. Those are the sorts of things that I’m doing.

My real estate investing business could retire me now. I have the time freedom that I have always wanted. The show is my big thing. I do have a couple of other books. If you look up Moneeka Sawyer on Amazon, you’ll find several books under my name. I released another one called Real Estate Investing for Women and I have a fun one that’s called Your Amazing Itty Bitty Blissful Real Estate Investing Book. It’s 40 pages. That’s also available on Amazon. Those were my three big things. I built my real estate business in about 25 years. I put together a report of how did I do that so that I could retire. I started with $10,000 and now I can retire. I’ve put together that report. That’s available to your audience for free if they would like it at BlissfulInvestor.com.

You’ve got a whole brand in and around educating women. Why is there a lack of women in the real estate space? I was even looking back at my shows. I’ve only had maybe less than a dozen women over 220 episodes.

It’s interesting because real estate agents, there are a ton of women, but as far as being investors, I don’t know. Maybe we haven’t been educated right. I’m not sure what’s going on there. It’s so frustrating to me, which is why I am focused on women. The other thing that’s very interesting is that we see investing as a male world and it can be intimidating. What women don’t realize is that we are brought up in America. We are brought up in a male-dominant world. We are forced to learn how to succeed in that environment. We learn the skills. We learn the way to think. We learn all of those male-dominant ways of doing business.

We also inherently by default have the feminine ways of doing business. We’re intuitive. We can see the bigger picture. We can multitask. Men can multitask too. It’s just done differently. I just want to clarify that. We bring different skills to the world and the business world. As women, we have the benefit of having male skills as well as female skills, but we don’t value our female skills. If you marry those two together, we are amazing investors. We have an understanding that most men don’t have access to unless they plug into the other side. We’re amazing investors and I want to support that.

I have a hard time finding women speakers for my show for that same reason. It’s time for us to step into the leadership of our own lives and create the financial freedom that we can have and deserve. Everybody deserves that. I don’t know either because I was brought up in a household where I was taught all about money. I feel very fortunate. I didn’t realize how many women are like, “I don’t get it. I don’t know how to pursue that.” A lot of education is by men with the language that feels uncomfortable.

I think of this historically where the man is going out to be the breadwinner and the female is at home taking care of the kids and, “Don’t you worry yourself with the finances. I’ve got it sorted.” That’s completely shifting and hopefully, it continues to shift. You’re trying to put a megaphone up to the issue and enticing more people into the world of real estate, particularly female, a popular part of the population. It’s important because it’s empowering. The more people can be empowered to learn about something, particularly the female part of the population has not had the opportunities because of the way we’ve been brought up for many years. To want to take that stand and say, “I want to learn about something. I want to learn about this financial freedom. I want to learn about creating financial wealth for myself and my family because that’s the whole point, to give me time freedom to spend with my kids, to spend with my family, to grow as a human being.” You talked about feminine energy and that is important. We all have it in ourselves. It’s just an ability to tap into it in certain ways. You’re doing an incredible job of giving a megaphone.

The school that I support in India is a coed school. Because here’s the thing with empowering women. If a woman is fighting and screaming, “Pay attention. Respect me,” people are going to hear, but people don’t learn by words. We need the support of our entire community and that means our men. If men are not going to support the empowerment of women, it’s going to be a huge, long journey. As the men come on board, now we all are lifted up together. Every single one of you who is willing to be a voice as an ally of women’s empowerment, we need you and appreciate you. Your voice is important too.

REW 57 | Real Estate Women

Real Estate Women: We’re all in our perfect place and we are perfect as long as we don’t succumb to comparing ourselves to others. Our life is ours.


There are some weird statistics out there in the S&P 500. There are only less than fifteen women who are CEOs, yet more than 25 of those CEOs are called David. It takes all boats to rise. Everyone needs to be pulling in the right direction, not just the female community saying, “We want to do this.” It’s about also the other side of the coin, the male community saying yes and acknowledging and telling that community, “We’re seeing and hearing you. You have a place at the table and you should always have a place at the table.”

We all value that. Men are greatly improved and evolved by recognizing that also. Like I said, my husband is an incredible, beautiful human being and so much of that is he values me. He’s not just an incredible, beautiful human being to me, he’s also respected everywhere because he has a good understanding of what respect looks like for everybody.

I have one question before we dive into the top five investing tips. What are your plans for 2020 and beyond, both business and personally?

I’ve got a summit coming up, my very first summit. It’s online virtually. I was originally going to have it live in person and then I felt very limited by that. I want to be able to reach as many people as possible so making it virtual allowed me to do that. I’ve got that going on. I’m probably going to release a book because that’s what I do. I love being an author. Look me up as Moneeka Sawyer on Amazon to see what happens there. Everything in life is a surprise. I love the new surprises that I’m inspired to do. Honestly, I want to invest in one more property. My goal is to be able to retire in Silicon Valley. Right now, I could retire. I would have to move. I want to be able to retire here so my husband can continue to be supported in working because he loves being a software programmer and this is where the work is. I’m going to be buying a couple of more properties, probably changing my strategy from an equity strategy to a cashflow strategy. Those are some of the things that I’m learning about, growing in and excited about.

At the end of every show, we like to dive into the top five investing tips. What is the daily habit that you practice to keep you on track towards your goals?

I have a good morning routine and anytime I miss it, I feel out of sorts. It’s super simple. I can go through it in a couple of minutes. I wake up and my alarm goes off and I push snooze. Everybody says, “Don’t push snooze.” I always push snooze and that time between my two snoozes is when I do my gratitude practice. I have a very specific way that I do that. Anyways, I do my gratitude practice, get out of bed, get dressed and feed the dog. My husband and I go for a beautiful walk together with the dog and have some coffee together. We make some eye contact before we split between for our days. I come home and I do some mindset tools. It depends on what I’m into. On that day, maybe I read, watch a video on YouTube or recite something. I do some positive affirmation and then I sit down at my desk at 10:00. I get my exercise, meditation, affirmations and gratitude. I get it all.

It’s so important to keep that morning ritual sacred for yourself because it helps you start the day and get involved into the next 8, 9 or 10 hours, however long you work for. Who is the most influential person in your career to date?

It’s my dad.

In your business, there would have to be an influential tool. When I say tool, it could be software or it could be a physical tool like a phone or a person. What is the most influential tool in your business on a day-to-day basis?


Books you’re reading or you’re writing?

REW 57 | Real Estate Women

Real Estate Women: You may not feel like everything is going perfect, but trust that you are perfectly where you are and that you will get to where you want to go.


I would say I’m reading. I’m always reading something. That’s not necessarily part of my morning routine, but at lunchtime, I can’t help it. I love to read. At some point during the day, I will read something that moves me forward to what it is that I’m doing tomorrow and what I’m doing in my business. I would say my Kindle, specifically.

In one sentence, what has been the biggest failure in your career to date and what did you learn from that failure?

I bought this place that I live in, my dream home. I bought it in 2008 and within six months, it lost 50% of its value. I lost $500,000 in six months. What I learned is it’s so important to stay blissful because my whole life would have blown up. If I didn’t have the skills that I had, I would never be where I am now, but instead, I engaged my bliss strategies, held onto the property and kept my head. It turned around and turned into a good thing. The truth is stay blissful, manage your emotions, be resilient and have mastery. Be very intentional about how you’re living you’re life. When things go wrong, be intentional about how you solve those issues.

Moneeka, where can people reach you to continue the conversation if they want to be in your sphere and want to learn more about what you do?

Moneeka Sawyer is where you find me everywhere, @MoneekaSawyer on Facebook and Instagram. You can go to BlissfulInvestor.com to find out about my books, my programs and my podcast is called Real Estate Investing for Women. You can find that anywhere podcasts are.

I want to thank you for jumping on the show. I want to reflect on the things that I took away from the show. I think the number one thing that I took away from the show is that no one can fix your life, only you can. That’s so important in this world of, we want to blame other people for the situation we’re in and not taking control and not owning up to your shit and turning it around. Blaming your parents, your upbringing, your husband or the dog. We all get into that mindset, but it’s also making sure that you’re self-aware enough to take yourself out of it. Have your morning rituals that are going to keep you grounded and make sure you are in a blissful state to not be so reactive in the situation, and understand more what the long-term game is. Did I leave anything out?

No, that was beautiful. Thank you for that summary.

Thank you so much for jumping on the show. Enjoy the rest of your week and we’ll catch up very soon.

Thank you.

There you have it. It’s another cracking episode and jam-packed with some incredible advice from Moneeka Sawyer. Please make sure you check out all her stuff. She’s all over Facebook. She’s all over Instagram. She’s all over the Google webs in terms of making all her books on Amazon. Make sure you head over to BlissfulInvestor.com or check out her show, Real Estate Investing for Women on any way you podcast. I want to thank you all for taking some time out of your day to tune in to continue to grow your financial IQ because that’s what we’re all about here on this show. We’ll do it all again next episode. Be bold, be brave and remember, go give life a crack.

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Grow Wealthy While Paying Taxes With Mark Willis


Would you rather pay taxes now while you are still earning or simply want to postpone it during your later years? If Mark Willis is to be asked, he believes that it is better to pay taxes as early as possible, giving you a chance to enjoy a tax-deferred retirement. The owner of Lake Growth Financial Services sits down with Moneeka Sawyer to discuss the benefits of addressing your tax problems before it builds up and becoming a huge life obstacle. Mark also presents the Overton Window concept, emphasizing the alternative ways to pay taxes that have nothing to do with 401(k)s or IRAs.

Listen to the podcast here:

Grow Wealthy While Paying Taxes With Mark Willis

Real Estate Investing for Women

I am excited to welcome back to the show, Mark Willis. He has been on the show several times. He’s been on our summit. He was in my book. He’s been with me a while and I’m excited to bring him back to talk about taxes. For those of you who don’t remember who Mark is, let me go ahead and reintroduce him. Mark Willis is a man on a mission to help you think differently about banks, Wall Street and financial uncertainty. After graduating with six figures of student loan debt and discovering a way to turn his debt into real wealth, as he watched everybody else lose their retirement investments and home equity in 2008, he knew that he needed to find a sane way to meet his financial objectives and those of his clients. Mark is a certified financial planner and number one bestselling author and the owner of Lake Growth Financial Services, a financial firm in Chicago, Illinois. Mike, welcome back to the show. How are you?

I am glad to be with you. I am doing great. I can’t wait to get into everything we have to cover together.

When you started talking about building wealth while paying taxes, I was all in. Let’s start by talking about tax-deferred retirement plans because that’s what people normally think is a good way to save on taxes.

REW 41 | Tax-Deferred Retirement

Tax-Deferred Retirement: Letting the tax problem build-up is oftentimes not a good idea.


I want to start with a story. Imagine you’re a farmer out in the middle of Nowheresville, Iowa or even more beautiful, California. I have nothing against Iowa, but California is awesome. Let’s say you’re a farmer and you’re up early in the morning, as you always are. You’re getting ready for your day. You’re pouring yourself a cup of coffee, there’s a knock at the door and you open the door. It’s an IRS agent of all people. You’re puzzled, but you welcome them in. You sit them down at your dinner table, you hand them a cup of coffee and you say, “What are you doing here?” The IRS agent looks you right in the eye and says, “Moneeka, we’re going to ask you one question and we’re going to treat you according to your answer in your taxes for the rest of your professional life.”

You say, “Okay.” They say, “Here’s the question, Ms. Moneeka, do you want to be taxed on the farming seed or your harvest?” You don’t even have to hesitate. You replied by saying, “Tax me on my seed. I want a tax-free harvest.” You know the power of compounding and multiplication. You’d rather be taxed on the seed. They make a few notes. He gets up to leave and he turns around as he’s walking out the door and he says, “I’m curious, you said the seed. Why are you doing it totally backward when it comes to your retirement plans?” That’s the story. The truth is most Americans are putting money into a tax-deferred system that goes against the grain. It goes against our intuition about taxes. I’ll hush right there, but I’m curious, does that story strike anything for you as we talk about it?

Absolutely. I’ve never heard that story before, but it is true and relevant. In our retirement programs, the money is a seed. Do you want to be taxed on the seeds that go in initially or on the harvest that is worth so much more later? I’ve never heard it that way and I love it.

If you think about it, the word tax-deferred would be everything from your 401(k)s, IRAs, 457 plans and 403(b) plans. At a lot of hospitals and nonprofits, they offer 403(b). They’re all tax-deferred retirement plans, which is a postponing of what’s due. What does the word postponed mean? What does the word defer mean? It means putting off until later. Taxes are about as fun as going to the dentist, in my opinion. If you want to defer a root canal, is that a good idea? It’s not a good idea to defer a root canal and similarly, letting the tax problem build-up is oftentimes not a good idea.

I don’t know everyone’s tax situation, but over the thousands of phone calls and Zoom calls I’ve had with clients over the past decade, having quick calls and long in-depth calls, evaluating people’s tax scenarios, we have pretty sophisticated tax software that we run for our clients, but we have brief calls with people too. We asked them the question, “What do you think as you look at the nation, as you look at your personal financial situation, is our tax going to be lower or higher in the future?” Moneeka, I can’t think of a single person who’s ever said other than, “Mark, I think taxes are going to go higher in this country over my lifetime.” I tend to agree with that. It’s not a matter of political left or political right. The math party says the taxes have to go up. It’s important to ask ourselves if taxes are going to be higher and we’ve put off the tax payment. Do you want to pay those extra taxes on the money or would you rather have a tax-free harvest? That’s the looming question every person has to ask, at least if you’re a tax-paying us citizen.

There’s also something else to consider that is relevant. We’ve been trained to think that we make a ton of money. We put a bunch of way. We have our kids. We have all these expenses that happen during our life, but then when we retire, we’re going to be living on our retirement income, which is going to be significantly less than what we’re making when we’re earning money. When we start pulling that money out, we’re going to be in a lower tax bracket. Whether the taxes go up or down, regardless, we’re going to be in a lower tax bracket. I want to ask you ladies, when you retire, after however many years you put in of hard work and bringing up your family, not getting to travel and making sacrifices.

[bctt tweet=”Most Americans are putting money into a tax-deferred system that goes against the grain.” username=””]

Hopefully, you haven’t done too much of that. Hopefully, you’ve been blissful, but whatever you’ve done, do you want to be living on less than what you’re making now? I say, “No.” My retirement is not going to happen until I can live my current lifestyle or better. I want to travel more. I want to be more with my parents. I want to afford a nicer house, even if it’s a little condo penthouse. Whatever it is, I want more than this lifestyle, not less. I’m not going to work all these years for less. If you think about that, you’re deferring all of this income. You’re going to be paying taxes at the current tax bracket or higher and on more as opposed to on less.

It’s so true, Moneeka. Even if taxes are only 1% higher than they are now, on a mathematical basis, it makes more sense to pay our taxes today. I’m not telling everyone to do that, but you’re so right. Anecdotally, I can’t think of any retirees that were even moderately successful in their investments, their savings or their real estate investing who are in a lower bracket. It’s an old-fashioned myth. We’ve been living in low brackets.

It’s a marketing strategy. In the earlier days, when a lot of this stuff was developed, people were getting pensions. They were able to live on Social Security because the cost of living hadn’t increased so much. There were some fixed income things that they could count on. The average man could count on being able to retire without having to invest and without having to be financially savvy. If that in fact is true, they aren’t going to be in a lower bracket. When you start talking about a tax-deferred retirement plan, you are in a lower bracket. That’s how this whole thing started. Now in the modern day where most of us don’t have pensions. We don’t believe we’re going to be able to live off of Social Security. We are investing. We are hoping to create a lifestyle for ourselves, a retirement that we deserve and have worked for. That’s a big difference. It started as marketing. It’s just not relevant anymore.

With regard to traditional retirement plans, I have nothing against them, I just think we’re using them for the wrong thing. When I was a little kid, my parents would get on me if I was using my toys in a way that it wasn’t designed. If I was throwing my Game Boy in the bathtub, that’s not going to end well. The same is true with our financial toys or vehicles or whatever you want to call them. Everything has a place. Nothing is wrong or bad. It’s a question of what do you truly want your money to do for you. If you want your money taxed in the future, that’s great. Let’s think about it this way. Let’s say that you had somehow $1 million in your 401(k) on the day you plan to retire. You’re a 401(k) millionaire, but some or a significant portion of that money is not yours. You have a partner with you in your 401(k). It’s an equity partner you might say in your 401(k). If you tried to take $1 million out of your 401(k) after you retired, it would look suspiciously like $600,000. The $400,000 would go to the IRS.

Here’s something to keep in mind. How much of that million dollars was due as a fee to the advisor and the wrap account charges and the investment load costs baked into your 401(k). Even if you had a 1% fee, that could be as much as a third of your life savings, gone to fees over your 401(k)s lifetime according to the Department of Labor. Did the government help you with that fee? Did the IRS help support that fee since they were a partner with you in the 401(k)? Did you have to come up with the full fee by yourself? Now, the government is taking all of their money out fee-free.

By the way, while we’re talking about it, who bears the risk of that 401(k)? Did the IRS bear the risk? Did us, as citizens bear that risk of the market going down or whatever else? It’s a fool’s errand to try to beat the system when we’re using a product that was designed by the government. I’m not anti or pro any political party, but it’s important to realize that when the government creates a problem called high taxation and then creates a solution to that problem like tax-deferred retirement plans, you got to ask yourself, are you being manipulated here? That’s important to ask, especially when it comes to creating a financial life that brings bliss and brings happiness.

REW 41 | Tax-Deferred Retirement

Tax-Deferred Retirement: Even if taxes are only 1% higher than they are now, on a mathematical basis, it makes more sense to pay taxes as soon as possible.


That is true. It is such a good tax conversation, but I’m eager to find out what we can do. Talk to me about what you got for us.

There’s something I want to chat about quickly, which is something called Overton Window. It is a cool strategy or framework for talking about things that are acceptable and unthinkable. Have you ever done Mad Libs?


[bctt tweet=”It’s a question of what do you truly want your money to do for you.” username=””]

Don’t you love these? I love cracking up with my buddies. I don’t care if you’re 34 or 11 years old, you love a good Mad Lib. I think what makes Mad Lib’s work is we are outside of Overton Window. This is what Overton Window is. A long time ago, you could say something on the street and it would be acceptable. If you said the same thing on the street in 2020 or 2021, it would be absurd to say something that may have been so acceptable years ago. Taxes similarly have gone through a major shift in our understanding of what they’re for and what they’re there to do for us.

There’s a number of places we can put our money that still may be outside of the acceptable, what’s common, and what’s regularly thought of as their retirement savings vehicle. You teach all the time. Moneeka, about alternative ways to prepare for fiscal sanity and financial bliss that has nothing to do with 401(k)s or IRAs. They’re even older than the 401(k). The 401(k) and IRA are not even old enough to retire you yet. The first 401(k) was issued in 1981, but some of your strategies in real estate, which provide incredible tax benefits on the seed and the harvest have been around since the pyramids. Investing in real estate is as old as time itself in human civilization.

We have some cool topics and details that we will be diving deeper into, but I want to remind your awesome audience, that it’s not a shoo-in. It’s not a locked-in strategy where we must follow the guidance of the person who gave us that 401(k). You probably want to take that company match most of the time, but for all of my real cash accumulation and investing, I’m looking outside amateur retail, investment products like 401(k)s. I’m looking at things that have been more time-tested and that aren’t going to sting me when I go to get my cash out in retirement or even before retirement.

I love how you talk about that there are all these different vehicles. There are some for more the amateur investment vehicle, and then there are some more expert type vehicles. You don’t need to know a lot to become an expert, you just have to start looking at that and studying it. I agree that if you have a 401(k) that matches, you take that. We completely max out our 401(k) with my husband’s company every single year. I’m not anti 401(k) either, but it’s a piece of the puzzle. Many people depend on it as being the puzzle. We don’t want it to be the puzzle. We want it to be a piece. Real estate could be another piece. Self-directed Roth could be another piece, and your programs could be another piece. There’s a lot of different ways that we can create and that’s what you want. You want a basket of diversified ways for you to create that wealth before you retire.

In fact, you have six streams of tax-free income to diversify against any taxable income. Here are a few fun ones. You mentioned Roth accounts. That’s a great one. That’s a smart one, especially as long as the Roth exists in the tax code. It’s only been since 1997 when we’ve had Roth accounts. As long as they last, let’s take them. Another one would be some real estate that we can continue to depreciate. If your accountant hasn’t already brought up things like bonus depreciation and cost segregation, bring it up to them and be concerned that they didn’t bring it up to you first. The next thing I’d say is to look at life insurance as a stream of income in retirement. Those life insurance cash values, not term insurance, can be a safe alternative to investing that provides a tax-free income in retirement.

Some people call it the rich person’s Roth because there are fewer restrictions than a Roth account in the way of, “How much you want to contribute to it.” That sort of thing. We’re talking about things that are outside the norm of Overton Window. If you think outside the norm, let’s think about some others. If you can take only your home equity and reverse it, you can be paid by the bank tax-free to live in your house for as long as you live. This is different than the late-night reverse mortgage infomercials. I don’t always recommend these home equity conversion mortgages, but that’s something PhDs and economists like Wade Pfau have been purporting and recommending people to look into as a fourth or even fifth stream of tax-free money.

If you can splice up and diversify your tax-free streams of income, all of a sudden, the remaining 401(k) money you have, it’s good to have some tax-deferred 401(k) or IRA money, as long as we have something called the standard deduction. If your audience knows, the 2020 tax code says the standard deduction for someone married filed jointly is $24,800. As long as your taxable income is below $24,800 out of that 401(k), you can deduct it all. You could be living on six figures of income from all those streams I listed for you and still report zero taxes on your tax return every year throughout your retirement. That to me is freedom because if tax rates do go up if they go twice as high, zero times, anything is still zero. It’s a phenomenal way to live free in retirement.

Thank you for that. What intrigued me so much is talking about your system for paying taxes because all of us have to be taxes unless you’re doing what you talked about, but we all have to pay taxes. Let’s talk about this crazy idea that you have about building wealth while you’re paying taxes. I know you’re only going to be able to give us a high-level. Ladies, I want to let you know that we are setting up a webinar with Mark because I’m so intrigued by this concept and it’s relevant now. Taxes are right around the corner. I want him to give you a high-level now. We’ll give you information on webinars so he can dive deeper. We’ll have a whole hour together and he can give you a lot more information there. Go ahead and introduce us to the idea.

We’ve been talking a lot about ways to lower our taxes both now and over the lifetime, but what about what we’re still having to pay at the end of each year? If you’re a business owner or if you have a small business, oftentimes you have a big check you have to write. Let’s imagine that you could somehow write that check to yourself first and earn some growth before you pay it to Uncle Sam. We’re still paying our taxes, but what if you could build a lot of wealth of the tax bill that you have to send to the IRS? I had to send a six-figure tax bill to the IRS in 2019 and it was painful. What if you could put that money into something that you could earn interest and grow wealth on while you’re still paying your taxes? That’s the quick byline for our webinars.

[bctt tweet=”We spend more on taxes than we will on our spouses.” username=””]

Check out that webinar. Even if you don’t pay a whole lot or think you don’t pay a lot in taxes, I’ll give a quick story. We had a lady who came in. She was 35 years old. She was paying and we totaled it up. Her wage deductions and more were about $6,000 a year in taxes. She was making about $50,000 a year. We estimated over the next 35 years, $6,000 times 35 years of work was $210,000 for her taxes. That’s $210,000. That’s a lot of money to keep Uncle Sam happy. If she had put that $6,000 a year into a 5% interest-earning account, her money would have been an extra $500,000 at retirement that she won’t have and Uncle Sam will.

It’s important to think about how can we build wealth oftentimes, at the biggest expense of our life. I hate to even say that because we’ll spend more on our taxes than we will on our spouses. We’ll spend more on our taxes than our own children. We’ll spend more on taxes than probably any other major expense that I can imagine. The truth is taxes are a big part of each of our lives. If you could find a way to build wealth off that major payment every year, you’d be set for life without taking a bunch of unnecessary risks. That’s short and sweet of it.

REW 41 | Tax-Deferred Retirement

Tax-Deferred Retirement: It’s an old-fashioned myth that retirees in a lower bracket are moderately successful in their investments or savings.


You had six figures, let’s say we owe $100,000 taxes. Give us a quick high-level example of how that would look.

First of all, we had a great accountant to bring that money down to as low as possible, but profits are profits and you’ve got to report them. We still had a major tax bill at the end of the year. What we decided to do was say, “We’re going to put that into a savings vehicle that we can earn some interest on.” The problem with most savings vehicles is that when you withdraw money out, it stops growing. That seems obvious. If I put money into a savings account or a CD, and then I withdraw that money out, how much interest am I now earning on that cash? Nothing. I can only earn interest slowly as I pack money up for the next tax year. I’m always faced with falling back down the staircase down to zero networth and having to build that up again, only to spend it again. It was a never-ending cycle.

What we decided to do was put it into an asset that allowed it to continue to grow, even when we access the cash to pay our tax bill. Using it as a line of credit to ourselves, essentially, we used a cash value life insurance policy designed the bank on yourself way, for the readers who want to learn more about that. We’ll be diving deep into how that works, showing real numbers on the webinar, but we use that to use as a cash source to pay our tax bill. We’ll continue to do so on every tax bill we have. It will add millions of dollars to our networth over our lifetime just by how we’re paying for our taxes. Now everyone’s numbers are going to be different, but those are our figures. You could use that same person, that 35-year-old lady who called me up. We had a Zoom call. She was floored when we saw what we could do with a similar strategy on even a nominal amount of tax every year.

This strategy is so much cooler than what Mark has been able to talk about because you get paid interest on that. You don’t have to pay back that money. There are different ways to do this so that you can maximize the wealth that you’re building while you pay your taxes each year. I’m amazed.

Let’s expand it to real estate. You can do the same with your real estate. You can do the same with your own major purchases like vehicles. Any major purchase, including taxes, this fits as long as you’ve sat down with a competent professional to look at it first. You don’t want to just jump into this half-blind, but you can take back control of that money. It’s a tax-free income stream under current law alongside Roth IRAs and other accounts. It’s a phenomenal change in the mindset of how we make our major purchases.

I’m excited about the webinar. Let’s give them a brief and rundown on what that’s going to look like. First of all, the webinar is going to be on January 21st, 2021 which is a Thursday. We’re going to be doing it from 1:00 to 2:30 Pacific time. To get signed up for that webinar, you go to BlissfulInvestor.com/Mark. Tell us a little bit about what we’re going to be covering in that.

[bctt tweet=”By building wealth off your taxes every year, you’d be set for life without taking a bunch of unnecessary risks.” username=””]

We’re going to have some specific ways in which you can lower your tax bill without building up a taxable time bomb in the future. We’re going to be talking about ways on how you can specify as a business owner or someone who’s got a day job, find some incredible tax gaps in the current code to take advantage of for yourself, paying what’s due of course, but never leaving the tax man a tip. That’s my mantra. Also, finding some specific ways you can use the strategy we described to build real wealth on your tax bill and all your other major purchases too. We’ll even be showing some real case studies and examples, and then a chance to see how we can even pull out of this asset a tax-free income stream that will last as long as you do.

I love that. Ladies, the reason that I asked Mark to do this webinar specifically was that two of you called me or emailed me and let me know that you did join up with Mark or Amanda Neely in the past. The whole infinite investing idea is real and you’re discovering how to use it and you love it. I have some other mentors of mine that are also working with Mark like Chris Prefontaine, who you guys also know. There are some people that I trust are working with Mark on this strategy. There are some of you ladies that have given me feedback that this is amazing and you love it.

I wanted to highlight it for the rest of you to see how you might be able to utilize it for yourself. That’s why we’re doing this webinar. I think it’s going to be valuable. Go sign up. It’s going to be at BlissfulInvestor.com/Mark. If you sign up and you can’t make it, he will send a replay out for you ladies. The other thing is if you feel like you would rather speak to Mark and not go to the webinar, you’re already sold, he’s going to give you his calendar link. How can they do that?

If you go to LakeGrowth.com/schedule and then mention Moneeka in the calendar link when you fill out the appointment schedule and you’re setting your time. It’s a fifteen-minute phone call or Zoom call. We would be happy to answer your questions. If you can’t wait for the webinar and want to get right to the answers, I would be happy to schedule that with you right away, but make sure to mention Moneeka in the appointment that you sent. I would be happy to send you a free copy of the chapter that Moneeka and I co-authored together and the awesome book, Real Estate Investing for Women, which was so fun to write. Thank you Moneeka again for the opportunity.

For the people who want to be on that calendar before the webinar, I’d be happy to chat with you guys. I don’t know if this is too much to say, Moneeka, but it may even be that those that attend the webinar get that chapter as well. I’ll leave that up to you to decide, but I want to get this information out to people. I think it will be so much fun. I can’t wait to be there with your readers and your audience again. You’ve got the greatest people in the world.

REW 41 | Tax-Deferred Retirement

Tax-Deferred Retirement: If your accountant hasn’t already brought up things like bonus depreciation and cost segregation, be concerned that they didn’t bring it up to you first.


Thank you. I think so too. I love my ladies. We’ll get some time to go through it. We go high level. It’s pretty quick because not everybody’s interested. For those of you who are interested, we’ll get some good time to deep dive. I’ve scheduled for 90 minutes so we have that commitment on our calendar. We can go through the webinar, ask questions and that sort of thing. Ladies, come join Mark and me on January 21st, 2021 which is a Thursday from 1:00 to 2:30 PM Pacific Time and go to BlissfulInvestor.com/Mark. Mark, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for sharing this time with us again.

You’re such a giving person, Moneeka, thank you for what you give to the world, and keep up the great work. We appreciate you.

Thank you. Ladies, thank you for joining Mark and I for this portion of the show. We look forward to seeing you next time. Until then, always remember, goals without action are just dreams. Get out there, take action, and create the life your heart deeply desires. I see you soon.

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Solutions To Finding Money, Where To Go & How To Ask with Chris Naugle

REW 17 | Finding Money Solutions


Opportunities don’t just show up in your doorstep unless you make a way for it to do so. Here to teach strategies and solutions on finding money for your real estate investments is Chris Naugle, the Founder of The Money School. He explains why you need to reimagine the way you look at and understand how money works in real estate. Chris emphasizes the importance of setting up a strategy for achieving your goals before entering the industry as well as having a multi exit strategy in place for security. He goes into the details of how you can secure money by not asking for it, instead by solving people’s problems.

Listen to the podcast here:

Solutions To Finding Money, Where To Go & How To Ask with Chris Naugle

I’m excited to welcome to our show, Chris Naugle. Chris is an entrepreneur with high-level experience as a financial advisor, managing over $30 million in assets. Using his expert knowledge and finance, he has successfully bought, renovated and sold hundreds of properties with his work being featured on HGTV. Chris, how are you? Welcome to the show.

I’m doing great. I’m excited to be here.

I’m excited too. I can’t wait to hear about all of this private money stuff. It’s going to be fun. Why don’t you start by telling us your story?

The story starts when I was a kid, I grew up in a lower-middle-class family. My dad was an alcoholic. My mom and dad got divorced and mom had to raise me. It was that story you hear all the time, but that story is not the norm for everybody. I realize that, but that’s how I grew up. I was that kid who always wanted more. I’ll never forget I always was willing to go out there and do what everybody else was unwilling to do. By 2004, that landed me to be a pro snowboarder. I don’t know if any of your readers have ever been to Buffalo, but most people avoid this place like the plague, but it’s not exactly the iconic place where you breed pro snowboarders. We have hills, not mountains. In 2004, I’d accomplished that goal. All I wanted was to be a pro snowboarder. At that point, I also had co-founded a chain of skateboard and snowboard shops called Phatman Boardshop.

I started them when I was seventeen years old. I started it as a clothing line in mom’s basement, which is a whole other part of the story. My mom, who never had anything, as crazy as this sounds, she put her house up on the line. It was the only asset she had in the world. She put her house on the lines for a crazy punk seventeen-year-old skateboard-snowboard kid to chase his dream. That’s how Phatman Boardshop was founded. By 2004, even though I had become a pro snowboarder, even though I had this chain of four skateboard and snowboard shops. Everything in my life seemed like a fairytale, but I still wanted more. I’ll never forget, at that point in time, I was infatuated with the movie Wall Street. Do you remember the original Michael Douglas Wall Street movie? I remember that movie and I’ll never forget it. When I saw that movie, the first thing I thought is, “I want that.” The only thing I could think of is to get that I need to be a stockbroker.

I need to be a financial advisor, which is where that all began because, in 2004, I started diving in and studying and doing everything it took. I became a financial advisor right around that time. As an advisor, I excelled fast. I got all my licenses, got every single certification you could possibly get. If there was a cert, I went out there and I got it. It was because of that, I rose to be one of the top advisors in the firm I was at. That continued on. I was an advisor for a long time. By 2006, I’d been seeing some of these flip shows on TV. We’d be at the shop working and we’d have HGTV on or A&E. We’d see these flips. In a TV show, you see a flip getting done in 22 minutes. It’s entertaining. I said, “I can do that.” I had some money from being an advisor and I decided to start flipping houses.

My first one was in 2006. It was a complete disaster. It’s the only word I can call it, but I got my feet wet. I did that all the way up until 2008. By 2008, this is the pinnacle. I was crushing it. I was literally crushing it as an advisor. I had flipped a couple of houses. I was a pro snowboarder at the peak of my career. By that point in time, I got my retail stores. Everything was humming along with that and I then got my next big idea. This is one of those grandiose ideas because I’ve always been a big thinker. That idea was I was sick of paying rent to my landlord. He kept raising my rent.

Two buildings down, this dilapidated paint store came up for sale. I saw the sign and I’m like, “That could be my new home for my stores.” What I would do is I would convert it to a three-unit strip mall. I’d have the tenants pay for my rent because why should I pay rent when my tenants would pay it for me? That was my big idea. I dove in. I borrowed money from a hard money lender. I call them knuckles in my stories. This was in 2008. It’s perfect timing. I didn’t even see this coming as an advisor, which is a whole other story.

REW 17 | Finding Money Solutions

Finding Money Solutions: You don’t need a ton of new things. You only need one thing. One thing that will catapult you faster, smarter and more efficiently.


In 2008, the small thing called the Great Recession hit me like a Mack Truck. It brought me to my knees. It got so bad during that period of time that I was one payment away from being completely bankrupt. I literally didn’t know how I was going to make it to the next day. What happened is my girlfriend, she’s now my wife, Lorissa. She moved into my house and I had to come home one night. This is when everything was crashing all around me. When you think your life is going one way, all of a sudden, these things happen and then you’re going the complete opposite direction.

I came home and I looked Lorissa in the eye and I said, “Sweetie, I need your help. I need your help paying the mortgage and the utilities. Honey, you’re not going to like this. I have to rent that bedroom out to this guy named Pete. I know you don’t know him, but I can’t make it. This is what I need.” At this point, I threw it out there. I had no one else to ask. I thought, “This is a 50/50 shot,” because she could say, “I’m going to let myself out and good luck, buddy.” She liked me because she ended up marrying me and making it through that period of time with me. Those are exactly what we did. We rented out two bedrooms in my little house that I had back then. That’s how I made it through.

By 2009, Warren Buffett, who was my all-time hero, says three things. I repeat these all the time, “Buy low, sell high and don’t lose money.” In 2009, I understood one of those three things. I understood buy low. I also understood real estate was cheap because that’s what the whole recession was about. That’s what brought me to my knees. I was right in the middle of it. If everything’s low, let’s start buying. That’s what I did. From 2009 to 2014, that’s all I did. I bought dilapidated apartments one at a time. I borrowed money personally for each one of these. I wasn’t using commercial loans. I didn’t know how money works. I thought I knew how money worked because I was an advisor and I knew exactly what I was taught in all the teachings, classes and certifications. I learned exactly what everybody else knows about money, the traditional way of thinking about money.

By 2014, I got up to have 36 units. I was back to making good money in the advisory firm because the markets have rebounded. By that point, I had sold off my stores in 2010. Phatman was sold and I’ve even sold off my strip mall. Right at this point in time, I realized I was in trouble all over again. You would think everything was going well but what I didn’t realize is when you borrow money in your personal name, the banks look at you and they say you don’t fit in their little square box eventually. I got up to 36 units, which were six properties. I brought one more to the bank and the bank said, “You don’t qualify because you don’t fit in a little box called the debt to income ratio.”

I said, “I can’t buy this new six-unit, but I’ve got all my other ones.” They said, “All those lines of credits that we gave you, we have to freeze all those, Mr. Naugle. You can’t use those anymore.” I had a bunch of properties unfinished. At that point, I’d gone from having money back in 2008. I was crushing it to almost losing it all. I had made it back and here I was again, now I was losing it all again. It was getting so bad that I was living paycheck to paycheck trying to make ends meet with all these properties and all my obligations.

I and Lorissa had bought our dream house and that was a big expenditure. It got so bad again that we had to sell off all 36 units, which who cares, they’re investment properties. I had to sell that dream house. That’s when I started thinking about quitting. I was like Rocky Balboa with the towel ready to throw it in. I got in the mail a postcard and this is where everything started changing. It changed because of what I call a magic postcard. This postcard was nothing special. You’ve gotten them. I bet you your readers have gotten them. It said, “Come to this three-day seminar to learn how to flip houses.” When I tell people that, they’re always like, “You’re crazy. What is wrong with you?”

What was wrong with me is that at this point I was humbled by my failures that I had nothing to lose. By going to the seminar, I got a free iPod Shuffle. That’s exactly why I went. I didn’t have anything to lose. I had an iPod Shuffle to gain. Off I went. On day one, there was nothing special but by day two, everything changed. It wasn’t because I learned a whole bunch of new stuff. It was because I learned one new thing. That one new thing was that breakthrough for me. It’s the same with many of your readers and the people you’re around, we don’t need a ton of new things. We need one thing. One thing that will catapult us faster, smarter and more efficiently. That one new thing for me was I learned that with the successful real estate investors and there were two of them. Mike and Greg were their names. What they were doing and how they were using money in real estate was the complete opposite of everything I’d ever been taught in my entire life about money and about how to use money in real estate.

At that point, I realized that they don’t teach this stuff. This is the knowledge you need to seek out and you need to dive in and chase because it’s never going to come to you. No one’s ever going to teach it to you because they’ve got nothing to gain for teaching you. When I learned that, I started questioning everything. Everything I’d ever learned started being questioned. Do you know sometimes in life, when you got hard times, you blame everything else? I blamed the lack of money. I blamed the economy. I blamed everything I could possibly blame. I was in the blame game. At that point, I realized it wasn’t about the money. It wasn’t about the economy. It was about the misinformation that I’ve been given my whole life because these two guys, what they were doing was working and they were killing it and it was everything that I’d never been taught.

That’s the moment when I decided to get off what I call the financial hamster wheel and that’s when I learned how all this work. How I learned all this is I swiped my credit card for $27,000. I told you where I was in 2014. I was broke. I was barely making it. Here I did swipe my credit card. My wife killed me when I came home and told her, “I bought us this thing. Do you know that thing that you didn’t want to go to? I swiped my credit card for $27,000 because what we need is what these guys can teach us.” That’s what changed it all. When I swiped it, I wanted to throw up in my mouth. I did. One of those ones that you got to re-swallow. It was so overwhelming that I was broke and here I was going $27,000 in debt without a hope in hell in ever paying that money back. That’s where the TV show comes in.

[bctt tweet=”Buy low, sell high and don’t lose money.” username=””]

I want to point out some things, Chris. Your story is amazing and it highlights some of these things that people go through or are afraid of going through. What is the biggest reason people don’t get started in real estate? It’s fear. Their fear that they don’t know enough, that they’re going to fail, that they’re going to go bankrupt, that they’re going to end up homeless. There are a lot of things that go on through our mind that are not necessarily rational but are definitely there. What’s interesting is when someone comes on this show and they lived the nightmare. You were one paycheck away or one payment away from being homeless. You had to sell your dream home. You were crushing it and then you lost everything and then you’re crushing it and then you lost everything. This is the thing that I want the ladies to know. Success is there for the taking, but failure is a part of success. We learn through that failure. Failure is scary. Chris can tell you. I’m looking at his face and he gets choked up when he’s talking about this. It was hard. It sucked. He had to talk to the woman he loved and humble up and ask for help. He had to sell their dream home.

That almost cost us our relationship.

Things happen that sometimes we’re afraid, what if they leave? I know I’ve had this with David. What if he leaves me? I’ve made this huge mistake. I said this many times and I want to say this again. Don’t give up on yourself. Real estate is the single most consistent, proven way of building wealth in the United States. It’s safe in general as long as you do it the right way. We know real estate works, but if you get in it and you make some bad decisions, it’s not going to kill you. It will make you stronger. In the end, if you stick with it and you don’t give up on yourself, you will see success. Even if we see failure, even if we see economic crashes, no matter what we’re seeing out there, what’s going on in our own mind is going to determine how successful we are. Fortunately, we have control over our own minds. That’s an important thing. Chris, I love your story of this roller coaster ride because this is the thing that many women fear.

I would never advise people to do that. It’s painful. Jump in feet first without any mentor, without any knowledge, don’t do that. If you do your research and get started, you get a mentor who can help you sidestep a lot of those mistakes and you can see success. I wanted to point that out, Chris, because as people are reading this, we’re all emotionally involved. “I can’t believe he went through that.” I wanted to point out that this is what we fear. This is our worst case. Now, Chris is here talking about his successes. Thank you for that, Chris.

You’re right with everything you said. You could even take and go back into my story and pull up the rest of the fear. The fear of being a pro snowboarder and what that was like, showing up places, and having to hit a jump that you thought was bigger than anything you’ve ever hit. That fear that engulfs you and that was part of life as a pro snowboarder. The fear of when my mom put her house on the line. Even though that was an exciting time, as a seventeen-year-old turning eighteen, my mom’s house was on my shoulders. If I failed, I’d lost my mom’s house. My whole life has been facing fear. Don’t think for a second it’s ever been easy. That whole roller coaster ride you heard there, there are many things in there where I literally want to quit.

I wanted to quit every time, but the only way to truly fail is to quit. I wasn’t willing to accept that even when things got bad in ‘14. Me and Lorissa, she was my fiancée then. We split when that house got sold. Things got hard and I didn’t know if that would ever come back. I had to take a month and go to Thailand to clear this head because I didn’t know how to get through to the next day. It all came back together because I never gave up. She never gave up on me either. When we came back and we went to this training that we spent all this money for.

At first, she was mad at me. She couldn’t believe I did what I did, but then when she saw it and she met Greg and Mike and she met all the other mentors that we were being coached by, she realized that this is what we needed. She realized that this is the stuff we were never, ever shown. I’m going to get right into the show because many people want to know how does one go about getting an HGTV show? How do you get that? That’s the likeliness of getting struck by lightning. A lot of people are misinformed on how you get a show. A lot of people think that they see you on Instagram or Facebook and they call you up and say, “We’d love to have you on HGTV.” No. Here’s how it started for us.

We were in a convention at this real estate training with our mentors and Tarek and Christina got up on the stage. They did a little dog and pony talk and it was great. My wife and I looked at each other and do you know what I said to her? I said, “Sweetie, if we’re ever going to get on that stage, we’ve got to have our own show.” Instead of going out and trying to find somebody to produce the show, I went back and I hired my friend, Kyle. He started going to one of the flips we were doing. He started filming us. I got this crazy idea as a snowboarder that we should do a show that mimics Jackass and Flip or Flop and bring it together. That’s where the first rendition of the show came up, which was Flip Out. How it started is we started filming and we were having so much fun.

REW 17 | Finding Money Solutions

Finding Money Solutions: If you’re getting into real estate, you should have a system and a strategy.


It brought me and Lorissa closer. We brought one of my ex-pro snowboarders in, his name was Blair. That whole experience, that bonding experience of working toward this pie in the sky thing, which was scary. It’s like, “This may never happen,” but the thought that if you work toward it and you keep that idea strong in your mind, it can happen. It did happen. We sent that video out to all the networks and we got turned down by every one of them the first time. The producer that took us on dropped us because they couldn’t get it placed. We should have quit there. We’re like, “No, we got something.” We went to the next producer.

That producer took my little crazy pie in the sky idea and he made it into their little box. He said, “This is what HGTV is looking for. You guys are this close. We need to squish it together.” We filmed it a whole other flip. That flip is the one that got us on HGTV. It didn’t happen overnight. You’ve got to understand, in 2014 is when we started that dream of getting a show on HGTV. We didn’t air until 2018. Think about that. Sometimes your dreams are not going to happen overnight. There is no easy button in life. It is a marathon. If you want something so bad that you can taste it and so bad that you will never stop, you’ll get it. As Napoleon Hill says, “If you dream it and you believe it, you can achieve it.” That’s exactly what got us the show. Never giving up.

Our show aired in ‘18, HGTVs Risky Builders. You can look it up. It was a wild and exciting time, but that same thing, when the show aired and we aired six times, we didn’t move on to the next season. You think you got it. Your ratings are there. You’re the number two show out of green light and you think you got it and all of a sudden, one thing happens. That one thing that happened for us was discovered about HGTV when our show was airing and they decided to freeze all my shows. That door that we thought was going to open that was going to pave the way for the rest of our life slammed in our face.

Another thing that Chris said that I want to highlight. His dream took four years. We are conditioned to have a short-term vision and immediate gratification mentality is common now. There are many people out there promising us, “You can make $1 million in two years. You have to work ten hours a week for the next eighteen months.” The truth is that I’m not going to say bad things about anybody that’s making promises because I don’t know. What I do know is an assured way of success is to have a long-term vision, especially in real estate. Chris did flips. That’s more of a short-term thing. I have done a couple of flips. It’s not my favorite thing to do because the pressure is high, but you want to have a long-term vision. First of all, if you’re flipping, have deep pockets enough that you can recover from any mistakes. With flipping, you have to be right on target.

We are at 257 flips to date and it would be 258 soon. I can assure you, you better hope you’ve got a good plan for how cashflow is happening.

In the beginning, mistakes happen and that costs money and time. You need to make sure that you’ve got the backing to do that if you want to do flips. Regardless of whatever you’re doing, whether it’s flipping or wholesaling or buy and hold, which is what I do, have a long-term vision. Real estate is not a get rich quick scam or idea. It is a long-term business. Even though his TV show, we’re talking about that and it took four years or whatever, understand that real estate is that way too. You want to stick with the dream long-term because that’s how it’s going to pay off.

The other thing too that you said in there that I want to clarify that it’s vitally important is if you’re getting into real estate, I don’t care if you’re going to wholesale. I don’t care if you’re going to flip. I don’t care if you’re going to do BRRRRs and buy and holds, you should have a system and a strategy. My system and strategy are simple. Each and every single property I have goes through, I call it four, but we’ll focus on a three-step strategy. Number one, every deal we get, first, we try to assign that deal because the quick dollar is always the best dollar. Number two, if we can assign it, we don’t freak out. We don’t worry because you know what we figured out, we figured out how money works.

That’s what I’ve written a book about. It’s what I teach and talk about, money and how money works. We take the deal down. What we do is we look at, can we wholesale this deal? Can we do a quick sale without doing much work or any work at all? If we can’t, if we flip the deal, that’s strategy number 2.5, as I like to call it, because if we can’t pull it out, then we’ll look at flipping it. If we flip or we’re looking at that strategy, we have to be able to make 20% profit. If we’re not going to make a 20% profit, it moves on to step number three or strategy three, which is a BRRRR. What we’re going to do is renovate it like a flip. We’re going to basically get it ready.

We’re going to rent it. We’re going to take it to the bank and refinance it. We’re going to keep it as a long-term rental because once you own the asset and you control the asset, it’s now providing cashflow. It’s appreciating. What we’ve even been doing is taking a lot of our rentals, packaging them together in nice rental portfolios and selling them off to areas like California, Toronto, New York City, where they can’t touch rate of return like what we’re getting here. That’s what we’ve been doing. Because we have that system, we never have to worry about cashflow. There’s always a secondary strategy. That goes right into what you were saying. There’s not one or the other that’s better, just make sure you have multiple exit strategies in your strategy.

[bctt tweet=”Success is there for the taking, but failure is a part of success. ” username=””]

Thank you for saying that, Chris. That is my big thing on how I have avoided my own disasters in my life in real estate is always having several exit strategies. Every business partner I go into business with, they have to understand that I’m not married to one particular exit strategy. I have my preference, but if that one doesn’t work, we are going to number two. In other words, if we’re trying to sell a flip or a construction project and the market has plummeted and we can’t sell it, I’m not going to chase the market down. I’m not going to do that. We are going to rent it. Understanding that you have many options with exiting a project is important. You don’t want to get married to a particular idea and you don’t want to get so bullheaded about it that you will make mistakes like chasing the market down. Instead of chasing the market down, chase rents up. You can do the opposite and succeed. Chris, nobody else talks about the multiple exit strategies. Thank you so much for that.

We did 257 flips and you might look at that and be like, “Wow.” We made a lot of mistakes in the early years. All we did was flip. I can tell you, there were times where I couldn’t even buy groceries because I had so much money out there, I didn’t have cashflow. We started getting smart. What we started doing is getting a rental and that rental cashflow, we’d roll it in. We created a spreadsheet. We had X amount of cashflow coming in and we wanted that cashflow to support the carry cost on the flips. It didn’t happen overnight, but we started figuring out, “If we can build a rental portfolio that cashflows, we can use that cashflow to determine how many flips we can do at one time because the cashflow carries the cost of the flip business.”

You make the big profits on the flips, but sometimes you’ve got to wait for that. We started saying, “If the house doesn’t sell and we don’t make 20%, no big deal. Let’s rent it and move it into the rental portfolio. If it didn’t sell now, it might sell next year or maybe down the line, we’ll keep cashflowing. We figured this out through mistakes. All these ladies that are trying to get into this business, if you take this knowledge and you apply this in your business, you will not go through these roller coasters that I had to. You won’t have to look fear in the face like I had too many times and say, “How am I going to get to the next thing?” You’ve learned from someone else’s mistakes. Although failure is a necessary part of success, you can minimize the number of failures by learning from other people’s failures and then applying what not to do in your practice.

It is why a mentor is so important. Could you tell us a little bit about how you started financing things? I know you started using private money rather than the banks. Could you tell us a little bit more about that?

It all came when I learned that the people that were crushing it in the business, I always thought it was because they had millions of dollars of their own money. I learned that they didn’t. They mimicked what the banks did. They used other people’s money. What the biggest thing I started doing, and I was good at this because I was an advisor, is I started going out and finding all these people that I thought had money. Whether it was in an IRA, hidden equity in their home or money that they had set aside in investments that maybe they weren’t comfortable with the risks. I found all of these different sources of money and the biggest source of money I found, to be honest, and this is going to blow you away, permanent life insurance. Do you know how much money is sitting in permanent whole life and universal life policies? These people don’t even know that they can access their cash value. I started going to these people and I started solving their problems. This is a massive takeaway.

One thing I got super good at is never asking for money. I never went to somebody and asked them for money. I went to somebody that I knew had money. I said I’ve learned what their problem was. Sometimes their problem was they didn’t like making their car payment. What I would do is teach them and I would say to them, “What if I could show you how to have your house pay for your car?” You see their problems, their car payment. The thing I know is they’ve got equity in their house. Instead of their house being a liability, I taught them how to turn their liabilities into assets by taking and using that hidden equity that was sitting in their house. That interest that I paid them on a monthly basis, the mailbox money, that paid for their car payment. I started learning that people’s problems weren’t wanting to become a multimillionaire.

Their problem was they wanted to take one more family vacation. Maybe they wanted to take their whole family to Disney World on them and pay for the little thing. To someone, that’s a major problem in their life. To us, do you know how easy it is for a real estate investor to solve that person’s problem? Show them how to take their IRA, their 401(k) money, their hidden equity, either money sitting into the life insurance and how to then take that income from those vehicles that are not doing anything for them in terms of an income. Show how that income will make them have that vacation. The number one thing to raising private money is not asking for money. It’s not knowing a bunch of people with money. It’s going out there and finding the people that you liked, the people that trust you, and teach them how to solve their problems. Their problems are stinking easy to solve.

For you, it was easy because you were a financial advisor. You had access to this information. The layman, for instance, me, I would never have that information.

REW 17 | Finding Money Solutions

Finding Money Solutions: Make sure you have multiple exit strategies in your strategy.


You do. How many people do you know that have employer-sponsored retirement plans, 401(k)s, 403 (b)s, 457s? Every person that’s working in a regular W-2 job probably is putting money into a retirement plan. They’ve been taught to do that their whole life. They’ve got this money sitting in their retirement plans, but do you know what their mindset tells them? “I can’t use that money. I would have to pay tax and penalties to take that money out.” That’s what they think. They don’t know that they can take a loan from that 401(k). When they take a loan from that 401(k), you being the borrower or the real estate investor, can pay that loan back for them and put some extra money in their pocket. If their loan costs them 5% and that interest that they’re paying on the loan goes back into their account, but that’s a cost to them. Why don’t you pay them 10%? They’re making a spread of 5% on that money. Everybody’s got one of these things.

A lot of people have old 401(k)s move into IRAs. Show them how to take those IRAs and move them to a self-directed IRA. You don’t even need to be the expert to say, “I know a person that could basically help you do this.” Everybody wants to think that I’m different because I was an advisor. Maybe it was a little easier because I knew how to identify these things, but everybody knows somebody that has money. Most people will tell you that they don’t have any money because they don’t know how money works. If you get a little bit of knowledge on how money works and you learn how to position your opportunity, which is your real estate deal, your opportunity, you can be positioned to solve their problem. All of a sudden, you start figuring out that the people that you don’t think having money are the biggest ones you can help and the biggest ones that can give you money for your deals. It’s a misconception of where the money lies and how people can use that money.

I don’t know if this happens for you, but someone starts talking about something and then something grabs your attention and you don’t hear anything else. This happened to me while you were talking, Chris. I was going to backtrack a little bit. You talked about they’ve got their 401(k). You can take a loan. You get 5% and then you, Chris, are going to pay them 10%. Ladies, the only reason I am focusing on this is to give you an idea of the paradigm shift that Chris can create for you. There’s one example. Based on what he said, there are probably many opportunities based on what you’ve got, but here’s the paradigm shift that happened for me. You take out a loan from your 401(k) at 5%. I don’t know if you caught this, but do you know that 5% is getting paid back to you? You’re paying interest back to yourself. You’re making 5% and he’s giving you 10%. A lot of people would look at this and say, “I’m getting a loan at 5% and I’m getting paid 10%. This is arbitrage. I’m only making 5%.” How much are they making?

It’s more than 5% because you are paying them 10% and the 5% they’re paying back to their 401(k) is their money. They’re paying themselves back with interest. What they’re doing is the same thing the bank does. You are literally mimicking what the bank does every single day because you learned one new thing that you can change. Everything I teach people is only changing one thing in your life. That is it. It’s applying basic banking principles, the simplest things that are on for hundreds of years to your everyday life. It will change your life. It will completely transform your life if you learn that one new thing.

There are many of those new things that we can learn. Once we focus on one and we start to utilize that, we create a plan like you’re talking about. Now, we have a business.

It’s about the home equity line of credit. It doesn’t cost anyone anything to get a home equity line of credit. Most banks will dish things out and they don’t even charge for the appraisal. It costs nothing to use or to get a home equity line of credit if you’re not using that money. You now got this home equity line and that home equity line taps into the equity in your house. People get excited about having equity in their house, but why? What is your equity in your house doing to change your life? Nothing. Do you know what your equity in your house is doing? I want you to visualize this.

Picture that you come home from work and on your couch is your money sitting there and your money is holding the soda from your fridge. The Lay’s potato chips from your cupboard and there are crumbs and everything all around your couch and your money is sitting there watching TV. Kick back. You worked a hard day and your money looks at you and says, “Did you have a hard day at work?” That’s what your money is doing every day. It’s sitting on your couch being lazy while you’re off hustling because you’ve been taught to go out there and work hard, work long, and you’ll get ahead. Your money needs to work hard. The best thing about your money is you can be a slave driver. You can make your money work hard and it will never ask for a break. It will never ask for a vacation. It will never even get mad at you, but you have to teach it and send it to work.

Your money is sitting there being lazy. Teach your money on how to go to work. Remember my mom. I told that example where she put her house on the line. After she did that, we learned something. After I paid off that store’s loan, what we started doing is mom had this line of credit. We started using mom’s line of credit to buy real estate. My mom’s line of credit was 5%. I would pay my mom usually 8% to 10% on the loan. I’d take a loan and I would pay mom back. That amount that I paid my mom above and beyond her payment to her home equity line of credit was enough to pay for a car. That’s where I came up with that whole idea of having your house pay for your car. That’s what people want. People want their car payment paid for by their house. They just don’t know how. The answer is so simple. Every one of you reading this has the answer to their problem. That answer is in the form of a real estate opportunity. Don’t ask for money, solve problems.

I’ve got one million things that I feel like I could add and we’re already out of time. We’re going to have EXTRA after this and we’ll do a deeper dive on some of this stuff. If you’re subscribed to EXTRA, you’re going to get a lot more. If you’re not subscribed to EXTRA, do it because you’re going to want a lot more. We’re going to talk about more of this stuff then. Before we close out this portion of the show, Chris, could you tell people how they can get in touch with you?

[bctt tweet=”If you work toward it and keep that idea strong in your mind, it can happen.” username=””]

The best way to get in touch with me is my website. It’s ChrisNaugle.com. They can go on there and that’s the best way. They can also check me out. A lot of people love social media. I am all over Instagram. It’s @TheChrisNaugle and Chris Naugle on Facebook. You can’t not find me. I answer every single direct message individually.

I knew that you wanted to give my readers a free gift, which is the eBook of your bestselling book, The Private Money Guide: Real Estate Edition. He’s going to be giving you that free eBook. Chris also wanted to make another generous offer. Could you talk a little bit about the membership offer you wanted to make to my audience?

I do because we’re talking about money and a lot of times, I can teach people where all the money is and they still don’t want to look for it. What I’ve created is a community of lenders and borrowers. Picture eharmony, the dating site. I’ve created that for lenders and borrowers. It’s a community that you can come into where all the lenders in there communicate with all the borrowers and the borrowers can submit their deals through a standard operating procedure. We do all the work for you. You fill in the blanks and your deal goes on. Literally, you can have all the lenders looking at your deal and they will do that. It’s called The Money School community. What I wanted to do is basically make a special offer and give it to everybody in your community at a very reduced price over what we normally charge. You can test it out. It’s a monthly subscription. You can try it. If it didn’t work, you stopped the subscription, no big deal, but it has literally provided funding for I don’t even know how many at this point. I don’t keep track of all the deals, but that’s what I wanted to do.

The URL is ChrisNaugle.Teachable.com. You’re going to look at the membership. It will show you the regular price, but then when you get an opportunity to put in the coupon code 50OFF and you’ll get $50 off of the monthly membership. It’s month to month. You can try it for one month at this reduced rate and continue at that rate if it seems to be something that is going to work for you. That’s generous and it’s an ongoing gift. It’s not like $50 off the first month. It’s an ongoing monthly gift. That was generous. Thank you, Chris.

You’re welcome.

Are you ready for our three rapid-fire questions?

I’m always ready.

Give us one super tip on getting started investing in real estate.

REW 17 | Finding Money Solutions

The Private Money Guide: Real Estate Edition: Solutions To Finding Money. Where To Go & How To Ask

The super tip to getting started is easy. It’s get started and find one person that is doing what you want to do and latch onto them and learn from them. That would be my super tip to getting started. Stop trying to think you need to know everything and take that leaping start.

What is one strategy on being successful in real estate investing?

One strategy on being successful in real estate investing is to come up with a strategy before you get started. Lay out or map out where you want to be and come up with the plan to get there. If you want to have five properties, come up with that plan of how many offers do you have to make versus how many houses you have to get. Write the plan down. Don’t dive in without a plan. Do the plan first.

What would you say is one daily strategy or daily practice that you use that contributes to your personal success?

Every morning, the first thing I do when I wake up is I get down on my knees and I thank God for what I have.

Chris, this has been amazing. Thank you for everything you’ve offered in this portion of the show.

You’re welcome. It’s been an honor.

Thank you for joining, Chris and I. We are going to be talking about more of this stuff in EXTRA. The question that I am going to be asking Chris is, how do you build wealth through debts and expenses? How do you come out ahead? That’s juicy. We’ll probably be doing a deeper dive on the private money piece also. If you’re not subscribed to EXTRA but would like to be, I know this sounds a little bit confusing, but here’s the thing. You go to RealEstateInvestingForWomenEXTRA.com. You get the first seven days for free so you can test it out. You sign up for the subscription. After that, it’s a monthly subscription that’s super cheap. It’s $5 a month and you can get your EXTRA episodes.

If you are on Apple Podcasts, you’ll be able to see it on Apple Podcasts. If you’re on Podbean or anything else, you’ll be able to see it on the device that you’re using. You don’t have to have another subscription to any other device or apps. I want to explain that. I know that was a little bit long-winded, but I get many questions on how do you do this. It’s RealEstateInvestingForWomenEXTRA.com and then it’s self-explanatory from there. Thank you for joining Chris and me on this portion of the show. I look forward to seeing you next time and until then, remember, goals without action are just dreams so get out there, take action, and create the life your heart deeply desires. We’ll see you next time.

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About Chris Naugle

REW 17 | Finding Money SolutionsChris Naugle has dedicated his life to being America’s #1 Money Mentor. His success includes managing over 30 million dollars in assets in the financial services and advisory industry and tens of millions in real estate business, with over 200 transactions and an HGTV pilot show since 2014.

In 20 years, Chris has built and owned 16 companies, with his businesses being featured in Forbes, ABC and House Hunters. He is currently the co-founder and CEO of FlipOut Academy™, founder of The Money School™, and Money Mentor for The Money Multiplier.

As an innovator and visionary in wealth-building and real estate, he empowers entrepreneurs, business owners, and real estate investors with the knowledge of how money works. Innovating what it takes to break the chains of financial slavery, Chris is driven to deliver the financial knowledge that fuels lasting freedom. To date, he has spoken to and taught over ten thousand Americans.

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